Thursday, 13 March 2025
Still on the trail but Charlie Ross has not been found
Monday, 29 July 2024
Back on the trail still for Charlie Ross
There is not much progress beyond some researchers say Rostopolous is not a real name and is mistaken spelling for KOSTOPOLOUS. Others say Rostopolous is real and connected to the Peloppenese which is near to Kythera, which I have thought might be a phonetic, heavy accent mistake for the Ithaca which has come down through the family. Ithaca is much better known and with a heavy accent, who can say, Ithaca or Kythera?
I am currently chasing the Port Pirie Greek Society to see if I can find out more and the South Australian Geneaology Society researcher said one of the birth notices Charlie registered, in 1894, and signed, looks like the first letter is either a K or an unfinished R.
I thought it might be a good idea to repost the material I put up in 2014.
We do not have much new information but every step forward
is worthwhile. I have had a researcher doing some more work for me and she has
established that he is listed as a fishmonger in Gladstone, from 1885 onwards.
Sands & amp; MacDonald directors have him recorded but
not in the 1884 edition. But as directories were usually produced in the year
following collection of data, he may well have been there in 1884.
His 1907 obituary said he had been in Gladstone for 'more
than 20 years' which fits with 1884 or even 1883, although if the latter, it is
more likely the obit. would have said nearly 25 years instead of more than 20
years. It being the way of journalism and an arrival of 1882 leaving him one
year short.
So, if Charlie arrived in 1883 and lived in Port Pirie, long
enough to be 'remembered' and it being considered important to reprint his
obituary from the Areas Express in the Port Pirie Recorder, it's a good guess
that he spent a few years in the town. I would say a minimum of five years and
a maximum of ten years.
This would have Charlie arriving in Australia either in 1878
or between 1873 and 1878. In 1873 he was 24 years old and could still have
spent ten years or more at sea, having
joined as young as twelve. And if he was on a British ship for that time,
Ithaca being a British Protectorate from 1815, he may well have Anglicised his
name many years earlier, as other sailors have been known to have done.
A date of 1883 for arriving in Gladstone, means Charlie may well have known Mary Ross
for some years before their marriage in 1888. He may even have moved to the
town because of her although why they would wait so long to marry is a
question. A Gladstone business directory
first records Mrs E. Atkins in 1878, the year Mary gives birth to her
illegitimate son, Edward Welch Atkins.
The family story of Charlie Ross jumping ship in Port
Germein, which was first 'discovered' as a port in 1840 but the jetty was not
built until 1881, may well be true, although Charlie could have arrived earlier
because ships would anchor in the gulf,
before the jetty was built, with barges and boats to ferry people ashore.
The researcher wrote:
I also found a Charles Ross listed three times in the index
to (Ships) Discharge Register, able seaman each time, discharged 11.1.1882 from
Anna Bell, 8.12. 1883 from Lass of Gawler, and 6.5.1884 from Empress of China.
These appear to be small ships that worked round SA and beyond. Details of
Empress of China (plus photo) and Lass of Gawler can be found in State Library
of SA catalogue online.
I couldn’t be sure that this is your Charlie Ross or not,
but it is a likely scenario, and the dates sort of fit, if he was based in Pt
Pirie prior to going to Gladstone.
The dates of 1882 and 1883 don't quite fit with Charlie
being in Gladstone, at least by 1886, to fit the 'more than 20 years, and
spending enough time in Port Pirie to be remembered so well a quarter of a
century on. But it is possible that he was the Charles Ross listed for
Discharge in 1882, with four years in Pirie, a small town at the time, and
perhaps enough of a character with a heavy Greek accent to be remembered. Or
maybe he was also just such a nice bloke that everyone liked him. His son, my
grandfather, Charles Vangelios Ross, was like that.
I am going to post again the information written previously
because it is so long since it was published and it is easier than wading back
through older posts.
Many old Pirieans
well remember the subject of this paragraph, which is taken from the Areas'
Express :
" It is 'with sincere regret " we have to record
the death of Mr Charles Ross, of this town after protracted illness from
asthma, &c.
Deceased was born 58 years ago, and, when a young man left
his native land— Greece—and after a roving career during which he had his fair
share of adventures, came to South Australia and settled at Port Pirie.
Eventually he came to Gladstone, where, - for more than twenty years he has
carried on his vocation as a purveyor of fish, &s. Although - taking"
no part in public affairs, he,- by his unostentatious but genial manner, won a
large circle of friends, who sadly deplore his death which took place on Sunday.
The remains were - interred in the Gladstone Cemetery on
Monday, the Rev J. Raymont officiating. . The greatest sympathy- Is felt for
the widow—-a.daughter of Mrs Atkins —and her, five children." ~
18th September 1907, Port Pirie Recorder from the Areas
Express.
I have been drawn back to this having found it again on
Trove while researching Edward Atkins and Hannah McLeod.
While it is good to read that great-grandfather Charlie Ross
was well respected and even better, well liked, in Gladstone it also makes me
think that somewhere there is an earlier story about him which throws more
light onto his 'roving career' and his 'fair share of adventures. I just have
to find it when I have a chance to get to Gladstone and go through the copies
of the old Areas Express which was the local newspaper at the time.
The age of fifty-eight fits with a birth year of 1849 and
given that the story says he left his native land as a young man, as opposed to
boy, it indicates that he did not join the merchant navy as a twelve or
thirteen year old (or younger) as was common, but in his late teens or even
early twenties. And that makes me wonder if he was married when he left Greece.
Taking twenty as a 'round' age for a young man, it means he
left in 1869 and given that he spent more than twenty years in Gladstone, he
had to arrive in that town by 1886 and he had to have spent long enough in Port
Pirie to be remembered by 'older Pireans.' A minimum of five years, although
more is likely, would have had him arrive in South Australia in 1881 and
possibly a few years earlier. That would have given him ten years for a 'roving
career' which is probably more than enough.
So what was happening on Ithaca and in Greece, during the 1860's which might
have prompted a young man to embark on a 'roving career' as a sailor? Ithaca had come under English rule some sixty
years earlier so young Charlie, or perhaps Carolus, would have had a reasonable
education.
The "United States of the Ionian Islands" was
formed, governed by a Constitution imposed in 1817 where Ithaca was represented
by one member (in the Ionian Senate). During the years of the Greek Revolution
against the Turks, Ithaca offered hospitality and medical care to the
revolutionaries and Ithacans took part in the War of Independence of 1821,
participating in the Hellenic Revolutionary fleet. "
Productivity, trade, private and communal education
developed and increased the living standard on Ithaca. The British, as they did
in other colonies or protectorates, brought a great deal of good along with the
'bad' aspect of having power imposed by a foreign nation. However, in this
instance, the Ithacans may not have thought much about the 'bad' since they had
been held by foreign powers for centuries. And overlords and colonial masters
who were less enlightened than the British.
Photo: Gladstone Cemetery where Charlie Ross was buried in
1907.
The British may have been patronising, superior and at times
oppressive but they also built roads, bridges, schools, hospitals and
established trade links as well as developing agriculture and industry. Ithaca
became a better place under British rule and young Charlie would never have
known anything different. By the time he was born the British had been in
charge for thirty-four years and his parents would also have known nothing
other than the British as colonial masters. Having taken them from the French,
perhaps Charlie's grandfather had welcomed British rule.
In 1864 Britain relinquished control and Ithaca, along with
the other Ionian Islands, became a part of the new Greek State. Perhaps it was
at this point that Charlie Ross decided his future lay elsewhere. He may also
have joined the British Merchant Navy and anglicised his name at that point.
Although the family story was that he came out on his 'uncle's ship' which
could have meant, if there is a connection with the Rossolimos family of
Ithaca, this being the most likely Greek surname for him, that his uncle owned
ships and found him a job. Then again, his uncle could also have been in the
British Merchant Navy and helped his nephew to find a job.
Charlie Ross had grown up as an Ithacan during a time of
British rule but the Ionian islands, of which Ithaca is a part, had always had
a hybrid nature and while culturally there was much in common with Greece,
historically, culturally and linguistically there was also much more at work
than Greek culture and many inhabitants of the Ionian Islands were not Greek.
Nearly half a century of British management, and exposure to Anglo and European
lovers of Greek culture in general and Homeric culture in particular, would
have influenced the Ithacan people just as they had been influenced by other
dominant cultures in the past.
For more than four hundred years the islands had been a
Venetian colony and later was dominated by the French, the Russians and the
Turks, all of whom introduced aspects of their own laws, forms of government,
language and culture. During the centuries of Venetian and French rule,
Ithacans in the higher stratas of society had inter-married and some had even
converted to Catholicism.
It was the peasants who held to the Greek Orthodox Church and
the Greek language and I have no reason to believe that Charlie Ross was
descended from a peasant family, despite the potential connection with the
rather more illustrious Rossolimos family. I could of course be wrong, knowing
nothing much about Charlie Ross beyond the fact that he was Greek, that when he
died he was well-liked and well-respected, and given the spelling of some of
his children's names in the birth register - Clesanthows, or Cresanthorus for Chrysantheous - he
had an atrocious accent, also verified by family stories, and perhaps his
reading and writing of English was not as good as it might have been, given his
clear failure to correct the clerk in Clare, who took down the details of his
son's birth. One would assume, if he had good written English, that he knew how
to spell Chrysantheous! NB: Another researcher said the name was written as Cresanthorus not Clesanthows. 2024.
But Charlie Ross, like the land of his birth, was something
of a mystery and a contradiction. He too had been formed through a variety of
influences; that of the culture of the land of his birth; the culture of a
sailor who spends years 'roving;' and the culture of the land where he chose to
settle, and no doubt, the culture of the woman he married.
The Ionian Islands were indeed hybrid: a mixture of numerous
influences and contradictions, and
Ithacans, like other Ionians were in many ways a 'mongrel' race where
East met West and where the mix of mind and culture was broad and sometimes
deep.
While admiring Greek culture and Ithaca's Homeric
traditions, the British saw the Ionians as very different to themselves. The
'superstition, ignorance, duplicity, violence, excitability and subservience to
demagogues were the opposite of industrious and upright Anglo-Saxons who
possessed self-control, reason, honesty, love for order and freedom, manliness,
domesticity, and respect for the law and sobriety.'
(http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/19415/1/19415.pdf)
Through British eyes the Ithacans would have been
half-civilized and unstable; childlike even, and therefore not capable of
looking after themselves. Young Charlie could not have held too many grudges
given that he finally made his home in a very Anglo atmosphere, another British
colony, Australia.
But there were others who saw the Ionians differently and
perceived a nobility of character. Whether this was sourced in romantic notions
drawn from Homeric history, as was alleged by some, it would still have
softened the general view. Some saw them as respectable, possessed of moral
virtue, skill and sincerity - not to mention independence of mind, a quality
which young Charlie must have had.
How much he brought from the land of his birth to Australia it is not yet possible to say and may never be known. While he had an anglicised name, from what we can find, from the very beginning, he gave all of his children Greek names. One wonders why, having given up his Greek name, he continued a tradition to give his children names which would always set them apart from Anglo society to varying degrees, some names being more unusual than others and unusual first names, being more of a burden than unusual second names such as my grandfather was given in Vangelios.
His wife after all was Australian of English descent and a devout Anglican from what can be seen and yet either he had the 'power in the house' or she, for some reason agreed because it was important to him, and their five children all carried Greek names in a very Anglo culture. It was not as if Charlie was part of a Greek community in Gladstone as he could or might have been in Port Pirie. He was probably the only Greek in town! It is not so much unusual that he anglicised his name but it is unusual that he did so and then called his children by Greek names.
There are a variety of reasons why he might have changed his name to an English 'version' and it is an assumption that it was simply Anglicised instead of changed completely: 1. he joined the British Merchant Navy and it was easier with an English name or they Anglicised it for their records; 2. he was 'running away from something' and an English name was harder to trace, 3. he changed his name or Anglicised his name when he 'jumped ship' in South Australia because it made him harder to find.
My gut instinct is that (1) is the correct answer because it would mean he had gotten used to being called Charlie Ross and it was too hard to change it but as part of Greek tradition and in honour of the land of his birth, his long-lost or perhaps now dead parents, he gave Greek names to his children.
The only reason for not following tradition is to make it more difficult, perhaps impossible, for him and his family in Australia to be linked to family in Greece, something any Greek could do, knowing naming traditions and something which would provide identity for an Ithacan, between Charlie and his Greek family, should an Ithacan end up in Gladstone. Given that Charlie had spent a few years in Port Pirie he would know there was a large Greek community in that town and amongst them, a few Ithacans.
The rest of the children's names may well follow naming
tradition but probably they do not. Although he has, by the fourth child, the
courage to use his father's name ... that is if the name Christie on the
marriage certificate is correct.
There seems only one reason why Charlie would not want clear
links with his Greek family and that would be if he had another wife or even
children there. Given Greek culture it is hard to believe he would not want his
parents to know where he was, but he might not want a wife to know he was a
bigamist.
Having said that, the fact that Charlie spent a few years,
probably at least five, in Port Pirie and it makes one wonder why, if there
were a first wife, he did not send for her. Perhaps he was just forgetful and
there is nothing manipulative about his naming practices. Time will hopefully
tell. Although he would have been the only Greek in town since Greeks did not
begin arriving until the 1890's.
But the absolute facts about Charlie Ross are still few:
1. He was born in Greece in 1849. He went to sea as a young
man, circa: 1869, sometime between the ages of 17 and 23. The earliest date
would be 1866.
2. He became a sailor and spent some years at sea 'roving'
and having adventures - minimum of five, maximum of ten.
3. He settled in Port Pirie after arriving in Australia. The
earliest date would be 1871 and the latest, circa: 1877, for enough years to be
'remembered.'
4. He moved to Gladstone circa. 1886 and worked there as a
fishmonger as he had in Pirie.
5. He married Mary Atkins in 1888. He gave his father's name
as Christie on the marriage certificate.
6. He had five children to whom he gave at least one Greek
name.
7. He anglicised his Greek name or adopted an English name
after arriving in Australia or the Port Pirie report would have included
another name for 'old Pirieans to recognise.
8. The Greek names he chose for his children, Constantinus,
Anastasia, Vangelios, Chrysantheous, Christus and Spiro are likely to have
family connections.
9. He died in 1907 and was buried in an Anglican cemetery.
10. His grand-daughter Flora Ross Swincer was said to be the
spitting image of him.
11. He had a very strong accent given the poor phonetic
spelling of some of his children's names on birth records.
12. He was obviously an amiable and personable character, as
stated in his obituary, given the fact that the death notice was reprinted in
the Port Pirie newspaper more than twenty years after he had left the town, for
the benefit of those who had known and remembered him fondly.
13. There is no record of him ever taking up citizenship.
(Perhaps evidence that he did jump ship.)
Other possible facts drawn from family history are:
1. He was born on Ithaca, one of the Ionian Islands.
2. He 'jumped ship' at Port Germein and so entered Australia
illegally.
3. He came out on his 'uncle's ship.'
4. He spoke a number of languages.
So the questions which still need to be answered are:
1. What was his Greek Christian name and surname?
2. Was he born on Ithaca? If so where?
3. Is his English name an anglicisation of his Greek name or
something he adopted?
4. On what date and just how did he arrive in Australia.
Port Germein was established in 1878 and the jetty built in
1881 while Port Pirie was founded as a settlement in 1845 and the town was
surveyed in 1871. In 1876 it had 971 people.
The Greek presence in South Australia was said to begin in
1842 when Georgios Tramountanas arrived at Port Adelaide with his brother
Theodore who went on to Western Australia. George born in Athens in 1822
settled on the Eyre Peninsula. But it would be another seventy years before
there was a documented Greek presence in Port Pirie. Naturalisation papers for
South Australia have a Peter Warrick, who anglicised his name, working as a
carpenter in Port Pirie in 1892. He had arrived in the colony in 1875 but there
is no record of where he was living between then and 1892. It may have been
Port Pirie in which case Charlie would have had a companion and perhaps one,
who, having anglicised his own name, encouraged him to do the same.
So the earliest Charlie Ross, given his age, could have
arrived in Port Pirie would be 1871 although if the 'jumping ship at Port
Germein' story is correct it would have been 1878. This would have given him
eight years in Port Pirie before he moved to Gladstone, long enough to be
'remembered' by a few 'old ones' at his death in 1907.
Personally I would be happy to have the Greek names which
would open so many more doors in the land of his birth. I am still hoping for
that one lost photograph to appear with the name on the back. Either that or a
distant Greek relative looking to find out what happened to a great-uncle who
sailed away never to be seen again.
Thursday, 18 July 2024
Perhaps I have been on the wrong track
Having failed conclusively to make headway on finding out more about Charlie Ross and his Greek origins, I am wondering if I have been on the wrong track for a long time.
The family story, from my father and his sister, was that
the family name was Rostopolous. The diversion arose because the other family
story was that Charlie was from Ithaca where the name Rostopolous does not
exist in any native sense. I know from his mistake signing his marriage
certificate that Charlie's Greek name began with ROS and because I fixated on
Ithaca, the search was for surnames which began with those three letters.
I am now wondering if the story about the family name was
correct but the story about where in Greece Charlie came from was wrong.
A Rostopolous family is registered in the 1940 US census for
Massachusetts. The parents were born in
Greece but it does not say where.
James Rostopoulos in the 1940 Census
Age 13, born
abt 1927
Birthplace
Massachusetts
Gender Male
Race White
Home in 1940
57 Market Street
Cambridge,
Middlesex, Massachusetts
Household Members Age
Head Peter
Rostopoulos 42
Wife Anna
Rostopoulos 37
Son Alec
Rostopoulos 15
Son James
Rostopoulos 13
Son Anthony
Rostopoulos 7
This snapshot of James Rostopoulos's life was captured by
the 1940 U.S. Census.
When James Rostopoulos was born about 1927, his father,
Peter, was 29 and his mother, Anna, was 24. In 1940, he was 13 years old and
lived in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with his father, mother, and 2 brothers.
I am now going to work at tracking down where in Greece the
Rostopolous family may have lived. This
may help.
Looking at the prefix of your Greek last name to determine
the meaning
More often than not, by breaking your Greek last name into
two, you can easily find out the meaning. Below we examine common “prefixes” or
the first half of the surname.
Greek last names beginning in Archi–, meaning the first in
charge or the boss
Greek last names beginning in Chondro–, meaning fat
Greek last names beginning in Gero–, meaning old or wise
Greek last names beginning in Hadji–, Arabic for someone who
has made a pilgrimage (for Christians this was to Jerusalem, for Muslims it was
Mecca)
Greek last names beginning in Kara–, meaning black in
Turkish
Greek last names beginning in Konto–, meaning short
Greek last names beginning in Makro–, meaning tall
Greek last names beginning in Mastro–, meaning mason or
worker
Greek last names beginning in Palaio–, meaning old
Greek last names beginning in Papa–, meaning priest (this is
often used with one of the suffixes meaning “son of”)
This says that Rosto was probably the name of the individual whose son became Rostopolous. Rosto is a Portugese word which means face or visage.
Looking at the sufix of your Greek last name to determine
the meaning
The sufix of the surname will often relate to the prefix.
See the examples below.
Greek last names ending in –akis and –oulis are diminutive
(cute or small) forms of the suffix e.g. Theodorakis is the diminutive form of
Theodoros
Greek last names ending in –lis and –tis are Turkish for
“of” or “from”, usually referring to the place of origin e.g. Politis means
someone from the Poli (which is what Constantinople was referred to for short)
Greek last names ending in –idis, –ides, –iadis, and –iades, meaning son of
Greek last names ending in –opoulos, meaning son of or
descendant of
Greek last names ending in –oglou and –oglu, meaning son of
in Turkish
SO ROSTOPOLOUS IS THE SON OF ROSTO.
How to identify the location where your Greek last name
originated
In many Greek last names, you can identify the location it
originated by looking at the ending of the name.
Greek last names ending in –opoulos, likely originated in
the Peloponnese
The Peloponnese is a peninsula located at the southern tip
of the mainland, 21,549.6 square kilometres (8,320.3 sq mi) in area, and
constitutes the southernmost part of mainland Greece.
However, an island off this area is Kythera and when I first
started pondering Ithaca as the origin, given the heaviness of Charlie's accent
as recorded, I wondered if it was Kythera and not Ithaca.
I have sent the following to the Kythera Genealogy Project.
I am trying to find the origin of my Greek
great-grandfather, Charles Ross. He anglicized his name after jumping ship in
South Australia in the mid 19th century. The family story was the name was
Rostopolous and he came from Ithaca. I have had no luck making any sort of
Ithaca connection and wondered, given his grandchildren said he had a very
heavy accent, if he was saying Kythera and it was heard as Ithaca which is
similar in sound and more commonly known.
Are there Rostopolous family from Kythera? My
great-grandfather was a sailor, supposedly on his uncle's ship, who was
probably also a sailor and not an owner, and he spoke a number of languages
including Greek and English. Charles Ross would have been born about 1849 and
he married in Gladstone, SA in 1888 and had five children, all of which were
given one Greek name.
John Constantinus, Charles Vangelios, Georgina Anastasia,
Christos Chrysantheous and Spiros Andrew.
Charles Ross gave his father's name on his marriage
certificate as Christos. I know that there are family connections in terms of
naming children in Greece.
Image one is the marriage certificate for Charlie Ross and Mary (Polly) Atkins.
Image two is a family wedding and my grandfather, Charles Vangelios Ross is on the far right with his daughter Jessie Ross (Sands) in front of him and his older daughter, Flora Ross (Swincer) on the left as the other flower girl.
Thursday, 8 February 2024
Little to report but I am still trying to find Charlie Ross
It is a long time since I posted anything, years in fact, and that is because I have not had any information to post.
We had plans to spend a month on Ithaca, the birthplace, or so we believe from family stories, of Greek Charlie Ross but Covid came along and trashed those plans. Family circumstances have not allowed that plan to be restored once the Covid insanity came to an end.
I did however decide to do a couple of Ancestry tests, despite having little faith in them, after a Greek genealogy blog recommended they can be helpful, particularly 23& Me. So, I did one with Ancestry which came back with zero connection to southern Europe or Greece and was a waste of money. The 23&Me test did show Greek ancestry with a link to the Ionian Islands, i.e. Ithaca, and so I hoped it might bring forth a relative with information about the family. Vain hope, because despite a couple of Greek names appearing, attempts to connect with them achieved absolutely nothing in response.
That has happened over the past 18 months and while there is a chance that some distant relative might pop up, it is at this point a fruitless quest. Or has been. Ancestry DNA tests are very hit and miss and while they can be useful in connecting with relatives going back 4-6 generations, perhaps, maybe, they are pretty useless beyond that, despite their claims.
It is also a numbers game where the more people who have been tested the more chances you will get a match. And while another third cousin, Sally Hetherton, grand-daughter of the youngest son of Charlie Ross and Mary Atkins, Spiros, did make contact with a Greek connection on 23& Me, the communication yielded nothing concrete about our family.
So, for the moment anyway, the DNA experiment has only brought dead ends. I live in hope that someone, somewhere, sometime may unearth a letter or photo which brings some progress to the search for Charlie Ross. Meanwhile I will repost an image of his grandaughter, Flora Ross Swincer, who was said to be the spitting image of him. Unfortunately while she inherited his looks, she also inherited his asthma, but not his weak heart.
Thursday, 13 August 2020
When no news is not necessarily good news but simply no news
It has been a long time since I have had any new information. I was meant to be in Ithaca for a month this year but the Covid situation has delayed that plan until next year at a minimum.
I do not have high expectations for time on Ithaca but feel that with the help of a local historian I might find something new, even if it is the fact that Ithaca was not Charlie's birthplace.
I got in touch with the Ithaca society in Melbourne again but have had no joy on that front either. So, Finding Charlie Ross continues but very, very, very slowly.
Friday, 8 June 2018
Bellringers and grave-diggers in the Atkins/Haines family....
Without spending hours, if not days and weeks, going back through it all to see what is repeated, I thought it better to repost on the basis that repeating information, given how convoluted this process has been, is not a bad thing.
It seems some ancestors were undersextons, a role which involved gravedigging.
- a person who looks after a church and churchyard, typically acting as bell-ringer and gravedigger.
The information comes from the Rootschat site, from a member named Capetown.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=250060;PHPSESSID=i44e737bqq4tpkges1f8d6v5q5
This was raised some time ago when an Edward/Edwin ATKINS was found in New South Wales convict Muster and later recorded as working at Yas Plains.
Edward ATKINS 1830 Florentia (on convict muster record but not transcribed to ship record) 24 y Gloucester, compared to
Edwin ATKINS 1830 Florentia (transcribed to ship record) 19 y from Yas Plains etc etc
The Certificate of Freedom Report on Edwin/Edward ATKINS says he has
dark grey eyes
sandy hair
a ruddy-freckled complextion
eyebrows meeting
5 ft 7.5 inches tall
tatoo HEA on his right inside wrist'
and appears to be a blacksmith
Just to-recap, Henry Edwin ATKINS christened at Cirencester 23 February 1812
So, convict Edward Atkins has the initials HEA, another link to Henry Edwin Atkins.
Siblings: **: Charles 1810: Rebecca 1811: (parents: Joseph & Ann)
Joseph ATKINS married an Ann HAINES in 1809 -
1841 census, Cheltenham
Ancestry: ALKINS)
Joseph - 50 Shoemaker
Ann - 50
David - 15
Marian (Mary Ann)
Eliza - 10*** Christened at Charlton Kings, Gloucestershire
Eliza, daughter of Joseph (Shoemaker) and Ann - born 28 February 1819 and christened 28 February 1830 aged 5 m -
--
This is the 1851 Census for Charlton Kings, Gloucestershire
Ancestry, spelt as ALBIN
ALBIN
Joseph - 67 - Shoemaker & Chelsea Pensioner, born Glos Cirencester
Anne - 65 - born Glos Cirencester
Mary A - 25 - daughter born Glos Cirencester
Eliza - 20 - daughter, born Birlingham (BIRMINGHAM, Worcestersh)
*** Will check for records on National Archives for Joseph ATKINS, Chelsea Pensioner)
---
The Gloucester Prison Records on Ancestry for Gloucestershire
describes Edwin ATKINS
Light brown hair
dark blue eyes
fair complexion
long face
6 small moles on his forehead
6 small moles on right cheek
a small mole near right armpit
3 small moles left arm
2 moles on his back
3 moles on the back of his neck
read and write
blacksmith, Height 5' 7"
(The man also on the same charge was William WALKER aged 42, also from Cubberley, he had dark sandy hair and was 5-6")
---
New South Wales Australia Convict Indents
Edwin ATKINS
Civil Gloucester: 7 April 1830
Arrival Sydney Cove,: 17 December 1830
--
Ancestry:
Gloucestershire, England, Prison Records,
Against the following Sentence of death has been recorded
Edwin ATKINS, Civil Gloucester, 7 April 1830
Joseph ATKINS, born Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Served in 66th Foot Regiment
Reference: WS 121/88/183
Served in 66th Foot Regiment, Discharged aged 20 after 5 years 2 months of service
Date: 1808
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Ancestry, spelt as ALBIN
ALBIN
Joseph - 67 - Shoemaker & Chelsea Pensioner, born Glos Cirencester
Anne - 65 - born Glos Cirencester
Mary A - 25 - daughter born Glos Cirencester
Eliza - 20 - daughter, born Birlingham (BIRMINGHAM, Worcestersh) Edwin/Edward :
My x Grandfather christened Edwin 1832 in Gloucestershire - also went by the name Edward. We have family members who were also in Cirencester at this time and in the 18th century.
Assume you have the Will of Thomas HAINES 21 February 1827, Cirencester, Labourer who mentions his late daughter Jane BROWN and his other daughters Hannah IVIN and Ann ATKINS - Grand-daughter Maria MORGAN (living with him) and son James HAINES.
Thomas seems comfortably off, but as regards Ann ATKINS, ..... 'and I further direct that the share of my said Daughter Ann ATKINS may be paid into her own hands by my Executors Indpendent of her husband for the time being, who shall not intermeddle, therewith, neither shall the same be subject to his Debts Control Interference or Engagement etc. etc.'
(Possibly Joseph & Ann ATKINS disappeared for a while up to Birmingham because of his debts etc)
---
Thomas HAINES (Under Sexton) buried at Cirencester 16 April 1827 aged 83
Jane HAINES - buried at Cirencester 29 March 1820 aged 77
Thomas HAINES married Jane HARBET - 2 November 1767, Cirencester
---
By Googling: Thomas Haines, Labourer, Cirencester
under the heading:
Cirencester 1540-1945 July 2017 Draft Victoria County History
On page numbered 29
Under Vestry Clerk & Sexton
' STEVENS kept detailed from 1775 of money taken for burials and more intermittently for ringing of the church bells. He paid a deputy THOMAS HAINES for jobs including dressing the church and cleaning the Chancel'
1841 Census, Cirencester, Cricklade Street
James HAINES - 70 Cordwainer
Mary HAINES - 66
Thomas BROWN - 82, Tailor
On the 1830 Pigots Directory for Gloucestershire (Cirencester)
James HAYNES, Boot & Shoe Maker : Dyer Street
Our family are on this directory in Dyer Street
? Joseph ATKINS may have worked for James
(and 11 Blacksmiths listed)
Still a shopping street today.
1853
James HAINES Jnr. Freehold Houses, Cricklade Street
Thomas HAINS - place of Abode, Hatherop - Freehold House - Cricklade Street
1861 Census, Glos. Cirencester
James HAINES - Head 53 - Under Sexton - born Cirencester
Ann HAINES - daughter 21 - unmarried born Cirencester
James followed his Grandfather as Under Sexton at St Mary's Cirencester
Photo: St. Mary's Church, Gloucestershire.
1841 Census, Dyer Ward : District 1
HAINES
James - 35 Shoemaker
Ann - 33
William - 8
Emily - 5
Ann - 3
1851 Census, Cirencester (Ancestry listed as HARRIES)
James - Under Sexton
Elizabeth - wife
William - son
Emily - Milliner Apprentice
Ann -
(ages crossed through)
| Held At | Gloucestershire Archives |
| Level | Piece |
| Alt Ref No | D1388/box9355/H2 part |
| Title | Office copy of the will of Thomas Haines of Cirencester, Gloucestershire, grave digger of the parish, made on 21 February 1827 proved on 8 October 1827 |
| Date | 1827 |
| Description | Witnesses: Jno Fowler, William Viner, Joseph Smith |
| Notes | Description created by a Cirencester project volunteer |
| Number of Docs | [1 document] |
Sunday, 22 October 2017
Chrysantheous Christos Ross
A family connection in the UK, Cathy Ritter, whose grandmother was sister-in-law to Chrysantheous Christos, sent details of this image of Charlie Ross's third son, when he joined the army in 1916. Both he and Charles Vangelios Ross served in the First World War, and perhaps more remarkable, survived it.
The information cites C.C.Ross as being promoted to the rank of Major, but there is no evidence for this in his military records and it is likely to be an error. And the spelling of his name is wrong but that was the way of it for him from the time that he was born and his father's heavy accent had him down as Clesanthows Ross in the birth records.
The correct spelling was Chrysantheous and it was more likely to be Christos than Christus.
The glass image is available for sale.
Half-plate glass negative of Chrysanthous Christus Ross wearing World War One military uniform, standing outside in front of a stone building. Written in pencil on side of plate: 'C.C. Ross 12/10 12 Cabs and Bro.' Bottom section of glass plate has snapped off.
One of a collection of glass plate negatives of South Australian soldiers, likely produced in metropolitan Adelaide from late 1914 to 1916. The majority of the images are single portraits and demonstrate a wide variety of uniforms, accoutrements and weapons, including swords and rifles with and without fixed bayonets, and various backdrops including outdoors, against buildings, and studio shots with a rural idyll woodland background.
Included are portraits of men in twos or groups of three or more, some with wives and sometimes children and parents. Some portraits feature warhorses, senior offices, a quartermaster, and the crew of a West Spring Gun.
The original paper envelopes of a number of the glass plates have survived, providing the name of the soldier along with details of the types and quantities of prints ordered. One of the envelopes gives details of the maker, Edwards and Errington of 52 Flinders Street, Adelaide. See B 74889-B 75011, B 75104.
Cathy also provided the following information:
I have found him and Alice buried in Dudley Park Cemetary, Adelaide.
