While I have been busy with other things Luke has done a bit more work and sent the following:
I have looked at the shipping records in which Barry Leadbeater has the sources in his
website “Family History SA” “Passenger Lists of Ship arriving in SA
1803-1854” for when Hannah McLeod and Edward Atkins came out to South
Australia upon the ship called the Eliza and arrived on the 14/5/1840.
I have read his information the same way you have Ros that Edward
Atkins was on the ship called the Eliza with Daniel and Hannah McLeod
because it states “Also Edward Atkins” however this is wrong and
indeed misleading.
I found the original record for Hannah and Daniel McLeod. It states
“Daniel McLeod, Servant, made application to come to SA 3/12/1839,
From Charleville, 18 years old. Hannah McLeod, Worker women made
application 3/12/1839, 16 years old from Charleville.” Both were
single because Hannah was only 16 years old.
If Hannah was 16 years old in 1839 then she was born c1823 and would
have been c20 years of age when she married Edward Atkins in 1843. It
would also mean that if she died sometime after the birth of Emily
Puddy nee Atkins in 1854 and before the marriage of Elizabeth Mashford
and Edward Atkins in 1857 Hannah would have been around c34 c36 years
when she died.
There is no shipping records for Edward Atkins. I talked to the family
history librarian who said that all Barry Leadbeater has done is that
he is just stating that Edward Atkins was not on the ship with Hannah,
but there is a cross reference for a person called Edward Atkins with
the person called Hannah McLeod. The cross reference is their marriage
certificate and the birth record for their first child Henry Atkins.
Furthermore, she said that if there is no shipping record for Edward
Atkins then it means he arrived in South Australia overland or on a
local ship from Sydney or Melbourne. We had a good talk about Edward
Atkins and she said that the South Australian authorities in the early
1800s were very carefully about keeping records of who arrived in
South Australia from overseas because they did not want certain types
of people living in South Australia. Many people who applied to come
to South Australia from England were rejected because they were seems
to be the wrong type of people. As a result, the South Australian
authorities kept very good records.
However, the South Australian authorities could do nothing about
people arriving in South Australia overland and there were too many
people coming backwards and forwards to local ports for the
authorities to keep records or to track.
She said because there is no shipping records for Edward Atkins he
more than likely arrived in Sydney or Melbourne and then travelled to
Adelaide in a local ship this way he avoided the local South
Australian authorities.
As a result, there is no shipping records of an Edward Atkins arriving
in South Australia from the UK as he did not come upon the ship called
the Eliza with Hannah McLeod or any other ship to South Australia from
the UK. However, it does add weight to the theory that the convict
called Henry Edwin Atkins could be our Edward Atkins, but does not
prove it.
This would mean that if Henry Edwin Atkins is our Edward Atkins once
he was released in NSW he did not go back to England and then
immigrated to South Australia, but just stayed in Australia. She said
it may be the case that if Henry Edwin Atkins is out Edward Atkins
then once he was released he decided to come to South Australia
because he knew there was no convicts in South Australia and could
start a new life without his past catching up with him. It is all just
theories, but it seems to fit at this stage.
Also Kylie I have been looking at the Areas Express and Farmers
Journal and I found this, but I do not know if the George Lewis
mentioned in the paper is your George Lewis or another person called
George Lewis living in the area. It states: - “George Lewis, Fred
Simpson and Sydney Heaslip are off to the war” Areas Express and
Farmers Journal Friday January 25th 1901. The only war I can think off
would be the South African war. Do you know if George Lewis ever
joined the army at all?
There,
I have thought all along that the 2 people on the NSW Convict Muster
Edward Atkins
Edwin Atkins
are 2 different people, however, they were not transferred over to the passenger list correctly, which is a possibility, as the microfilm and records were damaged (I confirmed this with the people doing the inputting of the records)
Edward Atkins on the Florentina from Gloucester in 1830 aged 24yo for 7 years. which means he was out in 1837
Edwin Atkins on the Florentina from Yas Plains.
I have a copy of the General Muster for NSW and there is definetly a Edward Atkins from Gloucester and a Edward Atkins from Yas Plains 19 yo on the list, both on the Florentina in 1830
I think this Edward Atkins is our Edward, the date and place of birth are what we are looking for.
the Edwin Atkins prison record also shows that he was still in prison and couldnt have married Hannah McLeod.
Here is a link to the blog note I put up when we last discussed this. Kylie seemed to feel that there was One Edward/Edwin Atkins. This also fits with the findings of the UK researcher and a connection with the name of Haynes(Haines). So the Gloucestershire Edward/Edwin came overland to South Australia sometime after his release. Although it is also possible, as the researcher states, that he first returned to England although perhaps not likely given the connection also with the O'Brien brothers.
This would make our Edward one of the earliest settlers in South Australia given the establishment of the colony in 1836, not long before Edward/Edwin was due for release. Perhaps he impressed the O'Briens and they took him with them when they went to SA in 1839 following drought on the Yass Plains.
http://roslyn-ross.blogspot.com.au/search?updated-max=2012-02-17T01:38:00-08:00&max-results=7
She wrote:
One reason I think there is only one person here is that there are no conflicting records, no conviction for Edward Atkins, no ship record etc, and there is no Edwin Atkins in the 1837 muster. If you check the muster record the ancestry.com year of birth is worked off the arrival date not the current year. I think the age is the current age, 24 (and he should have been at least 25 if he was 19 in 1830), take that from 1837, not 1830 and you end up with a close enough year of birth to be the same person. It is also possible that this is our Edward, and that he started out as Edwin. Interestingly the comment I have for Yas Plains in 1835 is that there is only a few scoundrelly convict shepherds there.
Yas or Yass Plains is just inside the NSW/South Australian border, some 300 kilometres from Gladstone and this Edwin/Edward was not only a blacksmith but was transported for stealing a sheep. Our Edward was a blacksmith and later worked as a shepherd.
The O'Brien brothers, Cornelius and Henry, from County Mayo, Ireland, settled this area in 1833 and employed Edwin/Edward Atkins and other 'scoundrelly' convict shepherds.
And the UK researcher said:
I would like to suggest that the Henry Edwin Atkins listed above is in fact your Edward Atkins. The reasons being that from the information that you have supplied, and by looking at various lists of people travelling to and from Britain and Australia, I believe that your ancestor first set foot in Australia as a nineteen year old convict, Edwin Atkins, sentenced to 7 years, this being in 1830.
Convict Registers
Edwin Atkins Gloucester Assizes 7 April 1830 7 years
Convict & Passenger Records
Edwin Atkins 19 Florentia 1830 7 yrs Protestant Hy O’Brien ‘Yes Plains’
NSW Muster Rolls
Edward Atkins 20 Florentia 1830 Gloucester
Hi Luke,
That is very clear and coherent. Thanks. The only thing I would add is the description of the convict on release fits our Edward. We don't have the tattoo but the rest fits. Ros :
Photo: Edward Atkins circa: 1870 with Mary (left) and Elizabeth.
The Certificate of Freedom report on Edwin/Edward Atkins says he had dark grey eyes, sandy hair, a ruddy-freckled complexion, eyebrows meeting and he was 5ft. 71/2 inches and had a tattoo HEA on his right inside wrist. The photo of our Edward clearly shows the fair and possibly ruddy and freckled complexion and the sandy hair and dark eyes and the height looks right when compared to the height of his eldest daughter Elizabeth who is standing beside him.
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11/04/2012
Reply ▼
Luke (Atkins) Harris
To cherrie.sherriff@sealink.com.au, Rosly Ross
Hi Ros and Cherrie. As with a lot of family history research something just cannot to proved to the degree we would like, but I am learning that is just how it goes sometimes. There is no real evidence that the Edward Atkins who married Hannah McLeod and then Eizabeth Lewis nee Mashford and the convict Henry Edwin Atkins or Edwin Atkins are the one and same person. However, there are a lot of similarities between the two people which an arguement can be developed to suggest that they are the same person. I have done a list of all the similarities between the two people. One of these similarities could just be described as a coincidence, but I have found at least 10 similarites between the two people. Again it all could just be coincidence, but on the other hand, there lies the possibility that they are the same person. if the two of you can find more similarities please add them to the list. Also Cherrie I forgot to tell you in my last email that I have heard back from Peter Pole who I wrote to. He told me he thought he had some photos of the Puddy family. He said to me he found the photos, but they were not old photos, but people of his time and age. He did not want to seems to go any futher than that so I think finding old photos from his end is a dead end so to speak. Have you had any luck yet tracing down old photos from members of your family?
· Both people have the same last names.
· The name Edwin and Edward are so close together that they could be interchangeable with out a lot of problems.
· Edward Atkins was born in Gloucestershire.[1]
· Henry Edwin Atkins was born in Cirencester Gloucestershire.[2]
· Edward Atkins was born sometime between 1807[3] and 1813.[4]
· Henry Edwin Atkins was baptisms on the 23/2/1812[5] which is very close to the year of Edward Atkins birth of around a possible year of 1813. The reader should not be disturbed if ages and years do not correspond exactly because people just did not know there own age sometimes and often guessed their age.
· Edward Atkins’ father was called Joseph Atkins.[6]
· Henry Edwin Atkins’ father was called Joseph Atkins.[7]
· Edward Atkins trade was a blacksmith.[8]
· Henry Edwin Atkins trade was a blacksmith.[9]
· Henry Edwin Atkins was convicted for sheep stealing.[10] Although the following statement is tenuous it could imply that he may have had some knowledge of sheep.
· Edward Atkins occupation in 1862 was a shepherd.[11] This could indicate that he had knowledge of sheep.
· During the 1800s it was a common custom or practice to name at least one son after the father. Edward Atkins first son was called Henry Edward Atkins. This provides a clue that Edward Atkins first name may have been Henry and if he was an ex convict he may have wished not to have been known by his real name which was Henry Edwin Atkins and just used the name Edward Atkins. However he felt it was safe enough to call his son Henry Edward Atkins.
· Edward Atkins only known surviving son was called James Haines Atkins. It was also a common custom or practice in the 1800s to incorporate a mother’s maiden name or grandmother’s maiden name as a middle name of a child. Henry Edwin Atkins mother was called Ann Haines. She married Joseph Atkins on the 14th August 1809 at Cirencester in Gloucestershire.[12] James Atkins middle name is not a common middle name for a child and thus could be an indication that his middle name may be related to some other family member like his grandmother. Thus this could connect Edward Atkins son James Atkins with the family of Henry Edwin Atkins.
· The person Henry Edwin Atkins disappears from the historical records in New South Wales after 1838 when he had served his sentence and a person with the name Edward Atkins appears in the South Australian historical records in 1843 when he married Hannah McLeod.
Regards Luke
[1] South Australian Register Tuesday 22 December 1891 p3.
[2] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.
[3] South Australian Register Tuesday 22 December 1891 p3.
[4] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford & South Australian
[5] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.
[6] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford.
[7] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011
[8] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford & Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Hannah McLeod.
[9] New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867 record for Edwin Atkins. Ancestry.com.
[10] New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867 record for Edwin Atkins. Ancestry.com.
[11] Birth Certificate of James Haines Atkins.
[12] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.
