Time to stop circling and return to ponder the purpose...

I have not gotten far in Finding Charlie Ross as planned in the beginning, but I have gotten far in finding the family into which he married and the family he founded.

Perhaps as Cavafy said, it is the journey which matters, not the destination. And, as the words which begin his poem predict, this journey is full of adventure, full of discovery.

As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.

I feel confident that what I want to know about Charlie Ross will be found - his Greek name and the confirmation of his place of birth - I just do not know when.

Photo: Greek singers in the 19th century.

But, what I can do is learn as much as possible about 19th century Greece in general and Ithaca in particular in order to get a feel of the culture into which my great-grandfather was born and the society he left behind.  The magical thing is that as I hunt for traces of him in the 19th century I can do so online, finding books, written by literal travellers to Greece, which will paint a picture of the world in which he grew up and the world he chose to leave behind.

One such book is Ithaca in 1850 by George Ferguson Bowen and another is, A Journal Kept in Turkey and Greece in the Autumn of 1857 and the Beginning of 1858, by Nassau William, Senior.  I have ordered both.

I may not be able to touch Charlie Ross as yet, in any tangible form, but I will chase him through the shadows of his past, and mine, until I can paint as clear as picture of him as possible. And perhaps, in that way of life, as I put together the pieces of his general past, it will draw, from the mists of Ithaca, pieces of his personal past.

Some snippets from the past:

'Access to the sphere of female socialization, which fascinated British travellers and observers, was even more severely restricted. It is worth turning to the clearly postcolonial context of the Ionian Islands which, again,may suggest the origins of British observations on this subject. Ansted, an observer acquainted with Greek Ionian culture, argued that it was imposs-ible to gather any information on women because Greek men ‘guarded’ them zealously, forbidding their interaction with the ‘Lords’ (1863: 58). No more information is provided by this account, but, intriguingly, we encounter the same comment on Greek attitudes in another travel diary by an anonymous expert on the Eastern Question.

This recorder travelled in the Greek kingdom before the Crimean War, but his work was edited and modified by John Murray in the 1870s. In the ‘Roving Englishman’s’ narrative, foreigners cannot approach women, who flee the encounter to find refuge in domestic spaces:I am lightly shod and I do not make much noise, nor am I a very fearful apparition;... but I have no sooner entered the street than a change comes over it.

 When I first turned the corner, young women were gossiping and laughing together in the doorways, and from the windows:now I hear the click of many doors closing stealthily; and the lattices are shut everywhere. A Frank is a rare sight in this obscure quarter, and the women are wild as young fawns. They are watching me from all sorts of places; but if I stayed there for hours, not one would come out till I was gone.'

'Greek deception would soon be associated with actual stage performance. According to a traveller, the Greeks were‘born actors’. Self-consciousness, which brings with it the usual train of mannerisms and affectations, is said to be the curse of the English stage, if not of English society. On the stage and off the stage it is apparently unknown to the Greeks, who, bumptious and boastful though they often are, do not look conscious or self-absorbed; never seem, when in public, to trouble themselves the least in the world whether or no people arelooking at them, admiring them, or criticising them, and, consequently,never appear nervous or ill-at-ease among themselves, as is the case with  so many of our countrymen.

Their habit of gesticulation, which we may call forced and exaggerated, is in reality as much part of their nature, as it is part of an Englishman’s nature to carry an umbrella '!(Young, 1876: 201) (History of the Human Sciences.)

–

A list of qualities which Greeks were said to possess:

 jealousy:

a desire for what the rival/other has

entrepreneurial spirit:

acting on this desire

 performance of mannerisms:

the means for acquisition of what is desired

Greek lying:

the deceived ‘other’s’ feeling of exploitation/ privation

 From a History of the Human Sciences.

The goal is to 'find' Charlie Ross but in the meantime.......

I am still waiting to hear back from the Gladstone Historical Society who were going to look through the newspapers between 1890 and 1908 to see if there was anything more about Charlie Ross other than his obituary.

It is a slow process and moves at country speed and I was told in response to an email weeks ago that something would be coming before too long! I am beginning to think 'before too long' means sometime in the next year or so. But, given that I cannot get to Gladstone for the moment to do the work there really is no choice but to remain patient.

In the meantime I have taken another 'fork' in the ever-turning road which is ancestry research and found out a little bit more about my paternal Scottish ancestors. While the Scottish researcher did not manage to find out just who my male G7's parents were, (we can follow his wife's line back two more generations) she did come across his military records which  in terms of ancestry research are quite a find indeed.


Livingston(e) Muirhead it seems, after serving his time with the Lanarkshire Militia, joined the Coldstream Guards, Second Foot,  and served some 20 years with them, including fighting at the Battle of Waterloo and receiving a medal for his part in the defence of Houghounot Chateau, the pivotal point of the battle to defeat Napoleon.

He was born in 1785 in the parish of Barony, Glasgow and joined the Coldstream Guards in 1813 at the age of twenty-eight. He is listed as a weaver and one assumes, given the times and place where he was born, that he worked in the cotton mills as a child, as another more famous Livingstone - David Hunter did. Given that Livingston Muirhead and David Hunter Livingstone were born in the same area and given that Livingston is likely to be a maternal surname, there is a good chance the families were connected at some point.

Livingston and his wife Helen (Storie) called their youngest son, my G6, Robert Hunter Muirhead. He was born  in1812, a year earlier than David Livingstone, and the Hunter looks to have come from her grandmother, Marion Hunter. While Marion was born and died in Tranent, East Lothian, where Livingston Muirhead lived after marrying Helen (Storie), who had been born in Haddington, East Lothian, a few miles outside Edinburgh,  the distances between Glasgow and Edinburgh are not great and the population of Scotland at the time a mere 1.5million people, with less than 40,000 of them living in Glasgow, means that shared family names mean shared family relations at some point in history.

Helen Storie or Storrie was born November 5, 1783 in Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland. Tranent is some 18 kilometres east of Edinburgh and one of Scotland's oldest towns. She was the daughter of  Thomas Storie (Storrie) and Agnes Blair(e). Both Thomas and Agnes were born in Tranent. Thomas in 1740, with his christening recorded for August 28 of that year and Agnes in 1744 with her christening recorded on November 9. One presumes Thomas was born in late August and Agnes in early November.

Thomas's grandparents were George Storie born in 1714 in Tranent and his wife, Marion Hunter and Agnes's grandparents were James Blair(e) and Helen Forsyth. They married in Tranent, East Lothian on July 6, 1739 and it is a reasonable guess that they were all born in Tranent as well.          

          2 

 Photo: Coldstream Guards from the Battle of Waterloo. This would have been Livingston Muirhead's uniform.

Livingston was illiterate, signing his military records with a cross and this explains why his name is often registered as Levingston and he is recorded as a winner of a Waterloo Military Medal under the name Lev, which I probably would have missed but the researcher did not. He served a couple of years in Paris after Waterloo and would have been often based in London.

Livingston resigned from the army in 1834 for health reasons. The surgeon recorded that he had difficulty breathing and this was a condition caused by his service but not through indulgence or lack of care. One presumes a childhood spent working in a cotton mill may have contributed to the condition.

He died in 1851 on December 2 at Musselburgh, near Edinburgh. Livingston and Helen had three children: James born 1808, Agnes born 1810 and Robert Hunter born 1812. Four years after his father's death Robert, a bootmaker and his wife Christina (Mitchell) and their seven children, James, Francis, Alison, Robert, Florenia, Helen and Anne along with James's wife, Euphemia (McLean) and their two children, Mary and Robert, would set sail for South Australia. All would arrive safely at Port Adelaide in 1855 but seventeen-year-old Francis would die before the first year was out.  Helen Storie Muirhead would die in 1858, never to see her youngest son or his family again.

Robert's grand-daughter Florena, born in Adelaide in 1873 to James and Euphemia, the 11th of their 12 children, would be my paternal great-grandmother, marrying Robert Jones (Jonas) in 1891 and producing another dozen children herself. No shortage of relatives on my father's side.

I shall put together a more concise history of the Muirhead family in the coming weeks.

I’ve been going through my family tree adding sources for every fact and checking what’s new on the web.  It is amazing how much has gone up in the last year or so.  Anyway I was checking the research Ros had done on Henry Edwin Atkins and unfortunately without the parish records we are still stuck but I have found something that I think changes things a bit.  Your researcher stated that the only 1841 census he could find for the family is for James (wife Jane and son George).  However the 1851 census for this family has James birthplace in Oxford somewhere I can’t read or find on the map.  If this is correct it means not one of this family was found in the 1841 census.  Susannah may have married and changed her name (there are only three possible marriages, none in the right county, or she could have married prior to civil registration),  I would have expected at least one of the sons to have established himself by then, Charles  at 31,  Henry would have been 29 and  James 25, all old enough not to be living at home. 

The later census that the researcher quoted was for;  George, I can only find an 1861 and 1881 for this guy and he is consistent in the year of birth being 1815.  So a maybe here.    Then David with 1851-1881 census, this all fits nicely but it is a fairly common name.  Unfortunately neither of these had any children or family with them on any census night so there is nothing to link them to this family.  It also means there are no other family trees on Ancestry.com to help us. 

If the suggested deaths for the parents are correct it would mean they missed the 1841, 1851, and for Ann, the 1861 census.  Your researcher was right, Henry Edwin does go missing but I suspect the whole family went missing.  This would call into question the Henry Edwin/Edwin link which is good to explain Henry missing but not the rest of the family.

I know Findmypast.co.uk is working with the Gloucestershire genealogists to get the parish records online but none of these are up there yet.  The marriage certificate for the David Atkins who married Hannah Holder in 1842 would give us his father’s name, his middle name is not on the index so that doesn’t help, this would be the cheapest way of checking if he fits this family.  If his father wasn’t Joseph, and with George a maybe I would suggest the whole family may have migrated somewhere.  I have not been able to find anything on Ancestry but then I haven’t access to records outside Australia and the UK.  If any of the libraries that you visit have the world coverage it might be worth checking to see if this family can be found elsewhere. 

This doesn’t have any relevance to the Edwin Atkins convict/our Edward Atkins question as they are completely separate questions.  Even if we find Henry Edwin elsewhere in the world, Edwin was still here, it just excludes this family and the Henry Edwin to Edwin link.

There is no real news but research continues

Photo: Gladstone, South Australia.


I am still waiting to hear from the Gladstone researchers who are looking into copies of The Areas Express in the hope of finding an article about Charlie Ross. If only, if only.... what a gift it would be to have a place of origin confirmed and even better, but less likely, a surname.

I have also taken on a Scottish researcher to see if we can take the Muirhead line back further than Livingstone Muirhead, my GG7 on my father's maternal side. Beyond that nothing much else has happened or seems to be happening. But who knows what the ether holds to bring forth.

And while I have done little, other family researchers have been adding to the information trove. Luke wrote:

I have looked at the shipping records in which Barry Leadbeater has the sources in his

website “Family History SA”  “Passenger Lists of Ship arriving in SA

1803-1854” for when Hannah McLeod and Edward Atkins came out to South

Australia upon the ship called the Eliza and arrived on the 14/5/1840.

I have read his information the same way you have Ros that Edward

Atkins was on the ship called the Eliza with Daniel and Hannah McLeod

because it states “Also Edward Atkins” however this is wrong and

indeed misleading.

I found the original record for Hannah and Daniel McLeod. It states

“Daniel McLeod, Servant, made application to come to SA 3/12/1839,

From Charleville, 18 years old. Hannah McLeod, Worker women made

application 3/12/1839, 16 years old from Charleville.” Both were

single because Hannah was only 16 years old.

If Hannah was 16 years old in 1839 then she was born c1823 and would

have been c20 years of age when she married Edward Atkins in 1843. It

would also mean that if she died sometime after the birth of Emily

Puddy nee Atkins in 1854 and before the marriage of Elizabeth Mashford

and Edward Atkins in 1857 Hannah would have been around c34 c36 years

when she died.

There is no shipping records for Edward Atkins. I talked to the family

history librarian who said that all Barry Leadbeater has done is that

he is just stating that Edward Atkins was not on the ship with Hannah,

but there is a cross reference for a person called Edward Atkins with

the person called Hannah McLeod. The cross reference is their marriage

certificate and the birth record for their first child Henry Atkins.

Furthermore, she said that if there is no shipping record for Edward

Atkins then it means he arrived in South Australia overland or on a

local ship from Sydney or Melbourne. We had a good talk about Edward

Atkins and she said that the South Australian authorities in the early

1800s were very carefully about keeping records of who arrived in

South Australia from overseas because they did not want certain types

of people living in South Australia. Many people who applied to come

to South Australia from England were rejected because they were seen

to be the wrong type of people. As a result, the South Australian

authorities kept very good records.

However, the South Australian authorities could do nothing about

people arriving in South Australia overland and there were too many

people coming backwards and forwards to local ports for the

authorities to keep records or to track.

She said because there is no shipping records for Edward Atkins he

more than likely arrived in Sydney or Melbourne and then travelled to

Adelaide in a local ship this way he avoided the local South

Australian authorities.

As a result, there is no shipping records of an Edward Atkins arriving

in South Australia from the UK as he did not come upon the ship called

the Eliza with Hannah McLeod or any other ship to South Australia from

the UK. However, it does add weight to the theory that the convict

called Henry Edwin Atkins could be our Edward Atkins, but does not

prove it.

This would mean that if Henry Edwin Atkins is our Edward Atkins once

he was released in NSW he did not go back to England and then

immigrated to South Australia, but just stayed in Australia. She said

it may be the case that if Henry Edwin Atkins is out Edward Atkins

then once he was released  he decided to come to South Australia

because he knew there was no convicts in South Australia and could

start a new life without his past catching up with him. It is all just

theories, but it seems to fit at this stage.

Also I have been looking at the Areas Express and Farmers

Journal and I found this, but I do not know if the George Lewis

mentioned in the paper is your George Lewis or another person called

George Lewis living in the area. It states: - “George Lewis, Fred

Simpson and Sydney Heaslip are off to the war” Areas Express and

Farmers Journal Friday January 25th 1901. The only war I can think off

would be the South African war. Do you know if George Lewis ever

joined the army at all?

Photo:Cirencester, Gloucestershire, some sixty years after Edward Atkins may have lived there.


And he went on to say:

 As with a lot of family history research something just cannot to proved to the degree we would like, but I am learning that is just how it goes sometimes.

 There is no real evidence that the Edward Atkins who married Hannah McLeod and then Eizabeth Lewis nee Mashford and the convict Henry Edwin Atkins or Edwin Atkins are the one and same person. However, there are a lot of similarities between the two people which an arguement can be developed to suggest that they are the same person.

I have done a list of all the similarities between the two people. One of these similarities could just be described as a coincidence, but I have found at least 10 similarities between the two people. Again it all could just be coincidence, but on the other hand, there lies the possibility that they are the same person.

·       Both people have the same last names.

·       The name Edwin and Edward are so close together that they could be interchangeable without a lot of problems.

·       Edward Atkins was born in Gloucestershire.[1]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins was born in Cirencester Gloucestershire.[2]

·       Edward Atkins was born sometime between 1807[3] and 1813.[4]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins was baptisms on the 23/2/1812[5] which is very close to the year of Edward Atkins birth of around a possible year of 1813. The reader should not be disturbed if ages and years do not correspond exactly because people just did not know there own age sometimes and often guessed their age.

·       Edward Atkins’ father was called Joseph Atkins.[6]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins’ father was called Joseph Atkins.[7]

·       Edward Atkins trade was a blacksmith.[8]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins trade was a blacksmith.[9]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins was convicted for sheep stealing.[10] Although the following statement is tenuous it could imply that he may have had some knowledge of sheep.

·       Edward Atkins occupation in 1862 was a shepherd.[11] This could indicate that he had knowledge of sheep.

·       During the 1800s it was a common custom or practice to name at least one son after the father. Edward Atkins first son was called Henry Edward Atkins. This provides a clue that Edward Atkins first name may have been Henry and if he was an ex convict he may have wished not to have been known by his real name which was Henry Edwin Atkins and just used the name Edward Atkins. However he felt it was safe enough to call his son Henry Edward Atkins.

·       Edward Atkins only known surviving son was called James Haines Atkins. It was also a common custom or practice in the 1800s to incorporate a mother’s maiden name or grandmother’s maiden name as a middle name of a child. Henry Edwin Atkins mother was called Ann Haines. She married Joseph Atkins on the 14th August 1809 at Cirencester in Gloucestershire.[12] James Atkins middle name is not a common middle name for a child and thus could be an indication that his middle name may be related to some other family member like his grandmother. Thus this could connect Edward Atkins son James Atkins with the family of Henry Edwin Atkins.

·       The person Henry Edwin Atkins disappears from the historical records in New South Wales after 1838 when he had served his sentence and a person with the name Edward Atkins appears in the South Australian historical records in 1843 when he married Hannah McLeod.

[1] South Australian Register Tuesday 22 December 1891 p3.

[2] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.

[3] South Australian Register Tuesday 22 December 1891 p3.

[4] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford & South Australian

[5] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.

[6] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford.

[7] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011

[8] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford & Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Hannah McLeod.

[9] New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867 record for Edwin Atkins. Ancestry.com.

[10] New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867 record for Edwin Atkins. Ancestry.com.

[11] Birth Certificate of James Haines Atkins.

[12] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.

A few bits and pieces to add to the information trove

 While I have been busy with other things Luke has done a bit more work and sent the following:

I have looked at the shipping records in which Barry Leadbeater has the sources in his

website “Family History SA”  “Passenger Lists of Ship arriving in SA

1803-1854” for when Hannah McLeod and Edward Atkins came out to South

Australia upon the ship called the Eliza and arrived on the 14/5/1840.

I have read his information the same way you have Ros that Edward

Atkins was on the ship called the Eliza with Daniel and Hannah McLeod

because it states “Also Edward Atkins” however this is wrong and

indeed misleading.

I found the original record for Hannah and Daniel McLeod. It states

“Daniel McLeod, Servant, made application to come to SA 3/12/1839,

From Charleville, 18 years old. Hannah McLeod, Worker women made

application 3/12/1839, 16 years old from Charleville.” Both were

single because Hannah was only 16 years old.

If Hannah was 16 years old in 1839 then she was born c1823 and would

have been c20 years of age when she married Edward Atkins in 1843. It

would also mean that if she died sometime after the birth of Emily

Puddy nee Atkins in 1854 and before the marriage of Elizabeth Mashford

and Edward Atkins in 1857 Hannah would have been around c34 c36 years

when she died.

There is no shipping records for Edward Atkins. I talked to the family

history librarian who said that all Barry Leadbeater has done is that

he is just stating that Edward Atkins was not on the ship with Hannah,

but there is a cross reference for a person called Edward Atkins with

the person called Hannah McLeod. The cross reference is their marriage

certificate and the birth record for their first child Henry Atkins.

Furthermore, she said that if there is no shipping record for Edward

Atkins then it means he arrived in South Australia overland or on a

local ship from Sydney or Melbourne. We had a good talk about Edward

Atkins and she said that the South Australian authorities in the early

1800s were very carefully about keeping records of who arrived in

South Australia from overseas because they did not want certain types

of people living in South Australia. Many people who applied to come

to South Australia from England were rejected because they were seems

to be the wrong type of people. As a result, the South Australian

authorities kept very good records.

However, the South Australian authorities could do nothing about

people arriving in South Australia overland and there were too many

people coming backwards and forwards to local ports for the

authorities to keep records or to track.

She said because there is no shipping records for Edward Atkins he

more than likely arrived in Sydney or Melbourne and then travelled to

Adelaide in a local ship this way he avoided the local South

Australian authorities.

As a result, there is no shipping records of an Edward Atkins arriving

in South Australia from the UK as he did not come upon the ship called

the Eliza with Hannah McLeod or any other ship to South Australia from

the UK. However, it does add weight to the theory that the convict

called Henry Edwin Atkins could be our Edward Atkins, but does not

prove it.

This would mean that if Henry Edwin Atkins is our Edward Atkins once

he was released in NSW he did not go back to England and then

immigrated to South Australia, but just stayed in Australia. She said

it may be the case that if Henry Edwin Atkins is out Edward Atkins

then once he was released  he decided to come to South Australia

because he knew there was no convicts in South Australia and could

start a new life without his past catching up with him. It is all just

theories, but it seems to fit at this stage.

Also Kylie I have been looking at the Areas Express and Farmers

Journal and I found this, but I do not know if the George Lewis

mentioned in the paper is your George Lewis or another person called

George Lewis living in the area. It states: - “George Lewis, Fred

Simpson and Sydney Heaslip are off to the war” Areas Express and

Farmers Journal Friday January 25th 1901. The only war I can think off

would be the South African war. Do you know if George Lewis ever

joined the army at all?

 There,

I have thought all along that the 2 people on the NSW Convict Muster

Edward Atkins

Edwin Atkins

are 2 different people, however, they were not transferred over to the passenger list correctly, which is a possibility, as the microfilm and records were damaged (I confirmed this with the people doing the inputting of the records)

Edward Atkins on the Florentina   from Gloucester in 1830 aged 24yo for 7 years.  which means he was out in 1837

Edwin Atkins on the Florentina from Yas Plains.

I have a copy of the General Muster for NSW  and there is definetly a Edward Atkins from Gloucester and a Edward Atkins from Yas Plains 19 yo on the list, both on the Florentina in 1830

I think this Edward Atkins is our Edward, the date and place of birth are what we are looking for. 

the Edwin Atkins prison record also shows that he was still in prison and couldnt have married Hannah McLeod.

Here is a link to the blog note I put up when we last discussed this. Kylie seemed to feel that there was One Edward/Edwin Atkins. This also fits with the findings of the UK researcher and a connection with the name of Haynes(Haines). So the Gloucestershire Edward/Edwin came overland to South Australia sometime after his release. Although it is also possible, as the researcher states, that he first returned to England although perhaps not likely given the connection also with the O'Brien brothers.

This would make our Edward one of the earliest settlers in South Australia given the establishment of the colony in 1836, not long before Edward/Edwin was due for release. Perhaps he impressed the O'Briens and they took him with them when they went to SA in 1839 following drought on the Yass Plains.

http://roslyn-ross.blogspot.com.au/search?updated-max=2012-02-17T01:38:00-08:00&max-results=7

She wrote:

One reason I think there is only one person here is that there are no conflicting records, no conviction for Edward Atkins, no ship record etc, and there is no Edwin Atkins in the 1837 muster.  If you check the muster record the ancestry.com year of birth is worked off the arrival date not the current year.  I think the age is the current age, 24 (and he should have been at least 25 if he was 19 in 1830), take that from 1837, not 1830 and you end up with a close enough year of birth to be the same person.  It is also possible that this is our Edward, and that he started out as Edwin.  Interestingly the comment I have for Yas Plains in 1835 is that there is only a few scoundrelly convict shepherds there.

Yas or Yass Plains is just inside the NSW/South Australian border, some 300 kilometres from Gladstone and this Edwin/Edward was not only a blacksmith but was transported for stealing a sheep. Our Edward was a blacksmith and later worked as a shepherd.

The O'Brien brothers, Cornelius and Henry, from County Mayo, Ireland, settled this area in 1833 and employed Edwin/Edward Atkins and other 'scoundrelly' convict shepherds.

And the UK researcher said:

I would like to suggest that the Henry Edwin Atkins listed above is in fact your Edward Atkins.  The reasons being that from the information that you have supplied, and by looking at various lists of people travelling to and from Britain and Australia, I believe that your ancestor first set foot in Australia as a nineteen year old convict, Edwin Atkins, sentenced to 7 years, this being in 1830.

Convict Registers

Edwin Atkins              Gloucester Assizes      7 April 1830    7 years                       

Convict & Passenger Records

Edwin Atkins    19      Florentia          1830    7 yrs  Protestant          Hy O’Brien  ‘Yes Plains’

NSW Muster Rolls

Edward Atkins           20        Florentia          1830                Gloucester

Hi Luke,

That is very clear and coherent. Thanks. The only thing I would add is the description of the convict on release fits our Edward. We don't have the tattoo but the rest fits. Ros :

 Photo: Edward Atkins circa: 1870 with Mary (left) and Elizabeth.

The Certificate of Freedom report on Edwin/Edward Atkins says he  had dark grey eyes, sandy hair, a ruddy-freckled complexion, eyebrows meeting and he was 5ft. 71/2 inches and had a tattoo HEA on his right inside wrist. The photo of our Edward clearly shows the fair and possibly ruddy and freckled complexion and the sandy hair and dark eyes and the height looks right when compared to the height of his eldest daughter Elizabeth who is standing beside him.

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11/04/2012

Reply  ▼

 Luke (Atkins) Harris

To cherrie.sherriff@sealink.com.au, Rosly Ross

Hi Ros and Cherrie. As with a lot of family history research something just cannot to proved to the degree we would like, but I am learning that is just how it goes sometimes. There is no real evidence that the Edward Atkins who married Hannah McLeod and then Eizabeth Lewis nee Mashford and the convict Henry Edwin Atkins or Edwin Atkins are the one and same person. However, there are a lot of similarities between the two people which an arguement can be developed to suggest that they are the same person. I have done a list of all the similarities between the two people. One of these similarities could just be described as a coincidence, but I have found at least 10 similarites between the two people. Again it all could just be coincidence, but on the other hand, there lies the possibility that they are the same person. if the two of you can find more similarities please add them to the list. Also Cherrie I forgot to tell you in my last email that I have heard back from Peter Pole who I wrote to. He told me he thought he had some photos of the Puddy family. He said to me he found the photos, but they were not old photos, but people of his time and age. He did not want to seems to go any futher than that so I think finding old photos from his end is a dead end so to speak. Have you had any luck yet tracing down old photos from members of your family?

·       Both people have the same last names.

·       The name Edwin and Edward are so close together that they could be interchangeable with out a lot of problems.

·       Edward Atkins was born in Gloucestershire.[1]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins was born in Cirencester Gloucestershire.[2]

·       Edward Atkins was born sometime between 1807[3] and 1813.[4]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins was baptisms on the 23/2/1812[5] which is very close to the year of Edward Atkins birth of around a possible year of 1813. The reader should not be disturbed if ages and years do not correspond exactly because people just did not know there own age sometimes and often guessed their age.

·       Edward Atkins’ father was called Joseph Atkins.[6]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins’ father was called Joseph Atkins.[7]

·       Edward Atkins trade was a blacksmith.[8]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins trade was a blacksmith.[9]

·       Henry Edwin Atkins was convicted for sheep stealing.[10] Although the following statement is tenuous it could imply that he may have had some knowledge of sheep.

·       Edward Atkins occupation in 1862 was a shepherd.[11] This could indicate that he had knowledge of sheep.

·       During the 1800s it was a common custom or practice to name at least one son after the father. Edward Atkins first son was called Henry Edward Atkins. This provides a clue that Edward Atkins first name may have been Henry and if he was an ex convict he may have wished not to have been known by his real name which was Henry Edwin Atkins and just used the name Edward Atkins. However he felt it was safe enough to call his son Henry Edward Atkins.

·       Edward Atkins only known surviving son was called James Haines Atkins. It was also a common custom or practice in the 1800s to incorporate a mother’s maiden name or grandmother’s maiden name as a middle name of a child. Henry Edwin Atkins mother was called Ann Haines. She married Joseph Atkins on the 14th August 1809 at Cirencester in Gloucestershire.[12] James Atkins middle name is not a common middle name for a child and thus could be an indication that his middle name may be related to some other family member like his grandmother. Thus this could connect Edward Atkins son James Atkins with the family of Henry Edwin Atkins.

·       The person Henry Edwin Atkins disappears from the historical records in New South Wales after 1838 when he had served his sentence and a person with the name Edward Atkins appears in the South Australian historical records in 1843 when he married Hannah McLeod.

Regards Luke

[1] South Australian Register Tuesday 22 December 1891 p3.

[2] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.

[3] South Australian Register Tuesday 22 December 1891 p3.

[4] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford & South Australian

[5] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.

[6] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford.

[7] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011

[8] Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Elizabeth Lewis nee Mashford & Marriage certificate of Edward Atkins and Hannah McLeod.

[9] New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867 record for Edwin Atkins. Ancestry.com.

[10] New South Wales, Australia, Certificates of Freedom, 1827-1867 record for Edwin Atkins. Ancestry.com.

[11] Birth Certificate of James Haines Atkins.

[12] Unpublished report concerning the family of Atkins by John J Tunesi Beacon Genealogical and Heraldic Research 31.12.2011.

Not a lot has been happening but the work goes on....

 Photo: My grandfather Charles Vangelios Ross in the 1930's.


My British researchers seem to have disappeared into the ether. Either they are very busy or my requests are too much like hard work or both. I do however have great faith that progress will be made when the time is right.


I have taken on some new researchers in Gladsone, South Australia having found a reference to the Areas Express and Farmers Journal when doing further research after Charlie's obituary was found which said that from 1902 there were more articles done of a personal and biographical nature - here's hoping for one on Charlie Ross which gives at least his place of birth because I doubt his Greek name would be published. But who knows?

Apparently, From 1924 to early 1925 a series of articles about old residents, titled '80 years or over', gave detailed information about the lives of ten elderly local men. But Charlie had been dead for many years by this time and Mary was not quite old enough but female anyway - the doings of men being of far greater import than that of women.

The Areas express newspaper served the small towns and farming communities around Gladstone for over 70 years. It took a strong politically conservative stance, and included articles about a wide range of agricultural topics. The Express was a weekly through most of its existence, but enjoyed enough success to be published twice-weekly from February 1878 to July 1886.

There is no doubt that a specific place of birth or at least a confirmation of Ithaca, would lay open the way to do what this blog was and is about - Finding Charlie Ross! Here's hoping.

Making sense of more Mashford meanderings

Photo: Parish boundaries of Zeal Monachorum.

 A few possible threads have tied themselves together of late although they are lightly tied in place and may have to be undone should they not be established as fact.

It looks like we can now take the Mashford line back a couple more generations and possibly to the John Mashford of Zeal Monachorum who signed an oath to the King in 1723.
 
"ZEAL MONACHORUM is a village and parish in Taw vale, 8 miles W.N.W. of Crediton, and contains 649 souls, and 2946 acres of land, including the hamlets of Loosebeare or Loxbeare, Burstone, and Tuckingmill. It was anciently called Sele Monachorum, and had the latter part of its name from its being long held by the monastery of Buckfast, to which it was given by King Canute. J.H. Ley, Esq., is now lord of the manor; but Loosebeare belongs to the Kelland family, and Burstone to J. and W. Wreford, Esqrs. Messrs. J. and R. Pedler, John Sweet, and a few smaller owners, have estates in the parish. The Church (St. Peter,) has a tower and five bells; and the living is a rectory, valued in K.B. at £17. 8s. 9d., and in 1831 at £401. The Rev. John Comyns, M.A. of Bishop's Teignton, is the rector, and has sold the patronage to Mr. Tombs. . . . " [From White's Devonshire Directory (1850)] - GenUKI, UK and Ireland Genealogy.

The emails have been flowing thick and fast again of late and Luke wrote:

There are too many people called John Mashford for me to think clearly so I thought I would confirm with the both of you about what we know to make sure I have it right.

We know Elizabeth Mashford’s father was called John Mashford and his dates are c1797-c1836. Is this right? We only think that John Mashford’s father was also called John Mashford who was the Parish Clerk at Coldridge c1799-c1871. However, we have no real proof of this. Is this right?

Photo: Zeal Monachorum 1965.

Ros you mentioned again about the family oral history which passed down to both sides of our family that Elizabeth Mashford was an illegitimate daughter to a wealthy noble man in England and she was sent out to South Australia to stop a scandal. I may have mentioned this before in one of my emails, but cannot remember so I will raise it again. I have found with other family oral history that some of it is true, but it has seemed to have be somewhat twisted over the generations.

For example, I was told that my GGGrandfather Cornelius Clavin lived at Alma Plains and moved to Laura where he died in a tug of war game. It is true that he lived at Alma Plains and that he moved to Laura, but he died when he was drunk in the local pub after a fight with another man. So half the story is true. I was also told that his wife Margaret remarried a man called Cassidy in Laura had more children and then moved to New Zealand. It was true that she remarried another man called Cassidy and had more children, but she moved to Melbourne and not to New Zealand. However, her daughter was also called Margaret Cassidy and she did move to New Zealand. As you said in your last email “stories are usually true, but often about the wrong person - and the wrong time”

I still find it interesting about the story of Elizabeth Mashford being an illegitimate daughter especially as it has survived in both branches of the family, but as we know there is no prove of it. I think may be the story origins arose from Peter Lewis. From the newspapers story of the court case about Peter, Elizabeth and her brother:-

“He made use of the threats complained of on that occasion, and he had circulated the most abominable stories of the witness and his sister. Mrs Lewis stated that she feared her husband would some times put his threats into execution, particularly as he was in the habit of getting drunk purposely to increase his violence.”

Maybe Peter Lewis told stories that his wife was illegitimate. Maybe Elizabeth Mashford would say something along the lines, “And that man use to say that I was an illegitimate daughter.” Over the generations was story then became “grandmother use to say she was illegitimate” and the story has persisted today. It is only a theory, but it could make sense.

I have also sent an email to the National Archives of England. I think I have may have mentioned it before that there is a reference on the National Archives of England website, of the matter of the estate of John Cann Yeoman of Chawleigh and his widow Mary Cann. I really could not work out on their website how to order it or how much it cost. If they email me back and it does not cost a lot of money I will order it to see if I can get any more information about the Cann family.I will let you both know.

Also to let you both know that I have tried to get in contact with possible descendants of Anne Pole nee Atkins (Edward Atkins daughter by his first marriage) and her husband John Pole. I noticed on the white pages that they were a few people with the last name of Pole still living in the Bangor, Wirrabara area. As a result, they may be descendants of Edward Atkins and Hannah McLeod and may have a family bible with information or old photos etc. You never know what people have sometimes. If they write back to me I will let you both know.

Photo: St. Peter's Church, Zeal Monachorum.

The information I had was that the John Mashford who married Mary Cann was the son of John Mashford who married Mary Labbett in Eggesford, Devon in 1796 which would have had him born circa. 1766.

Sandra, the Devon researcher, in the recent exchange posited the following:

The John Mashford mentioned is not either of the two John's mentioned in the previous paragraph although he may be connected to either of our John's.  According to my records, John Mashford married Martha Godbeare 1st February 1702/3 at Zeal Monachorum and was buried there in 1725.  I have found baptisms for five children of this couple, including a John in 1715/16 who is the only surviving son.  That is where the trail goes cold as I, although I have found a marriage for John, junior in 1736, I have only found two children's baptisms (Mary and Henry) - and nothing further about either of the two children.  I THINK, but can not prove, that they also had a son John born around 1743 who became the Parish Clerk at Coldridge and was your progentitor.

So the John Mashford, Parish Clerk at Coldridge, born 1743 could be the father of John Mashford (married Mary Labbett) born circa. 1766 - Elizabeth's grandfather.  If this is the case this would make John Mashford, Parish Clerk, Elizabeth's great-grandfather.

John Mashford, born around 1715/16 could be the father of JM, Parish Clerk and therefore be Elizabeth's great-great-grandfather and the John Mashford who married Martha Godbeare (love that name) at Zeal Monachorum, 1702/3 could be Elizabeth's G3 grandfather. He would have been born circa. 1675-90 I would imagine. This John Mashford died and was buried in Zeal Monachorum in 1725 and it is highly likely that he is the John Mashford recorded as signing an oath of allegiance to the King as previously written about on the blog:

This reminded me of earlier research into the earliest John Mashford I could find, who was recorded in Zeal Monachorum swearing allegiance to the King, in 1723. Zeal Monachorum is barely four miles from Coldridge which makes him a very likely ancestor for our lot and a possible shared ancestor for Albert's family.

John Mashford of Zeal Monachorum swore his oath nearly one hundred years before Elizabeth was born at The Blue Anchor, Crediton on September 23 before Bampfylde Rodd and John Gibbs esq. There were still some Mashfords in Zeal Monachorum in the 1841 Census.

As to the oral history Luke, regarding Elizabeth, I do agree, as I have said, that stories can be right but about the wrong people at the wrong time. Although interestingly, and I did think this when I first read the Peter Lewis comments, that this does raise some more questions because here is my theory:

When I first read about Peter's 'circulating the most abominable stories of the witness and his sister' I took it to mean he was accusing them of having sexual relations. Which is the most logical sort of abominable one would think of a husband to say about his wife and her brother. And this 'fits' with my theory (and instinct) that Elizabeth Mashford may not have been the biological daughter of John and Mary, but a relation, brought in because she needed a home and George May was therefore not a brother, but a cousin - close or distant.

It is only theory and rather impossible to prove, at least at this point, but the claims Peter Lewis made could be seen in this light. Given how common illegitimacy was in the times and this was the colonies where probably the worst thing you could be was an ex-convict rather than illegitimate, I doubt the 'abominable stories' .... and they are about George and his sister remember.... are about Elizabeth's illegitimacy, particularly if there was knowledge of a 'noble' connection.
 
I know that John and Mary have the birth of a daughter Elizabeth recorded but this does not mean that the child could not have died young and we do not have a death record and our Elizabeth came to take her place at a young age.

Illegitimacy was shameful in the times and the sort of thing to be hidden, not talked about, unless there was a good reason to talk about it such as 'noble connections.' So I don't see that an ordinary illegitimacy would be talked about in the first place, nor have noble connections woven into it over the generations. The two either go together as an absolute or they do not.