There is not much progress beyond some researchers say Rostopolous is not a real name and is mistaken spelling for KOSTOPOLOUS. Others say Rostopolous is real and connected to the Peloppenese which is near to Kythera, which I have thought might be a phonetic, heavy accent mistake for the Ithaca which has come down through the family. Ithaca is much better known and with a heavy accent, who can say, Ithaca or Kythera?
I am currently chasing the Port Pirie Greek Society to see if I can find out more and the South Australian Geneaology Society researcher said one of the birth notices Charlie registered, in 1894, and signed, looks like the first letter is either a K or an unfinished R.
I thought it might be a good idea to repost the material I put up in 2014.
We do not have much new information but every step forward
is worthwhile. I have had a researcher doing some more work for me and she has
established that he is listed as a fishmonger in Gladstone, from 1885 onwards.
Sands & amp; MacDonald directors have him recorded but
not in the 1884 edition. But as directories were usually produced in the year
following collection of data, he may well have been there in 1884.
His 1907 obituary said he had been in Gladstone for 'more
than 20 years' which fits with 1884 or even 1883, although if the latter, it is
more likely the obit. would have said nearly 25 years instead of more than 20
years. It being the way of journalism and an arrival of 1882 leaving him one
year short.
So, if Charlie arrived in 1883 and lived in Port Pirie, long
enough to be 'remembered' and it being considered important to reprint his
obituary from the Areas Express in the Port Pirie Recorder, it's a good guess
that he spent a few years in the town. I would say a minimum of five years and
a maximum of ten years.
This would have Charlie arriving in Australia either in 1878
or between 1873 and 1878. In 1873 he was 24 years old and could still have
spent ten years or more at sea, having
joined as young as twelve. And if he was on a British ship for that time,
Ithaca being a British Protectorate from 1815, he may well have Anglicised his
name many years earlier, as other sailors have been known to have done.
A date of 1883 for arriving in Gladstone, means Charlie may well have known Mary Ross
for some years before their marriage in 1888. He may even have moved to the
town because of her although why they would wait so long to marry is a
question. A Gladstone business directory
first records Mrs E. Atkins in 1878, the year Mary gives birth to her
illegitimate son, Edward Welch Atkins.
The family story of Charlie Ross jumping ship in Port
Germein, which was first 'discovered' as a port in 1840 but the jetty was not
built until 1881, may well be true, although Charlie could have arrived earlier
because ships would anchor in the gulf,
before the jetty was built, with barges and boats to ferry people ashore.
The researcher wrote:
I also found a Charles Ross listed three times in the index
to (Ships) Discharge Register, able seaman each time, discharged 11.1.1882 from
Anna Bell, 8.12. 1883 from Lass of Gawler, and 6.5.1884 from Empress of China.
These appear to be small ships that worked round SA and beyond. Details of
Empress of China (plus photo) and Lass of Gawler can be found in State Library
of SA catalogue online.
I couldn’t be sure that this is your Charlie Ross or not,
but it is a likely scenario, and the dates sort of fit, if he was based in Pt
Pirie prior to going to Gladstone.
The dates of 1882 and 1883 don't quite fit with Charlie
being in Gladstone, at least by 1886, to fit the 'more than 20 years, and
spending enough time in Port Pirie to be remembered so well a quarter of a
century on. But it is possible that he was the Charles Ross listed for
Discharge in 1882, with four years in Pirie, a small town at the time, and
perhaps enough of a character with a heavy Greek accent to be remembered. Or
maybe he was also just such a nice bloke that everyone liked him. His son, my
grandfather, Charles Vangelios Ross, was like that.
I am going to post again the information written previously
because it is so long since it was published and it is easier than wading back
through older posts.
Many old Pirieans
well remember the subject of this paragraph, which is taken from the Areas'
Express :
" It is 'with sincere regret " we have to record
the death of Mr Charles Ross, of this town after protracted illness from
asthma, &c.
Deceased was born 58 years ago, and, when a young man left
his native land— Greece—and after a roving career during which he had his fair
share of adventures, came to South Australia and settled at Port Pirie.
Eventually he came to Gladstone, where, - for more than twenty years he has
carried on his vocation as a purveyor of fish, &s. Although - taking"
no part in public affairs, he,- by his unostentatious but genial manner, won a
large circle of friends, who sadly deplore his death which took place on Sunday.
The remains were - interred in the Gladstone Cemetery on
Monday, the Rev J. Raymont officiating. . The greatest sympathy- Is felt for
the widow—-a.daughter of Mrs Atkins —and her, five children." ~
18th September 1907, Port Pirie Recorder from the Areas
Express.
I have been drawn back to this having found it again on
Trove while researching Edward Atkins and Hannah McLeod.
While it is good to read that great-grandfather Charlie Ross
was well respected and even better, well liked, in Gladstone it also makes me
think that somewhere there is an earlier story about him which throws more
light onto his 'roving career' and his 'fair share of adventures. I just have
to find it when I have a chance to get to Gladstone and go through the copies
of the old Areas Express which was the local newspaper at the time.
The age of fifty-eight fits with a birth year of 1849 and
given that the story says he left his native land as a young man, as opposed to
boy, it indicates that he did not join the merchant navy as a twelve or
thirteen year old (or younger) as was common, but in his late teens or even
early twenties. And that makes me wonder if he was married when he left Greece.
Taking twenty as a 'round' age for a young man, it means he
left in 1869 and given that he spent more than twenty years in Gladstone, he
had to arrive in that town by 1886 and he had to have spent long enough in Port
Pirie to be remembered by 'older Pireans.' A minimum of five years, although
more is likely, would have had him arrive in South Australia in 1881 and
possibly a few years earlier. That would have given him ten years for a 'roving
career' which is probably more than enough.
So what was happening on Ithaca and in Greece, during the 1860's which might
have prompted a young man to embark on a 'roving career' as a sailor? Ithaca had come under English rule some sixty
years earlier so young Charlie, or perhaps Carolus, would have had a reasonable
education.
The "United States of the Ionian Islands" was
formed, governed by a Constitution imposed in 1817 where Ithaca was represented
by one member (in the Ionian Senate). During the years of the Greek Revolution
against the Turks, Ithaca offered hospitality and medical care to the
revolutionaries and Ithacans took part in the War of Independence of 1821,
participating in the Hellenic Revolutionary fleet. "
Productivity, trade, private and communal education
developed and increased the living standard on Ithaca. The British, as they did
in other colonies or protectorates, brought a great deal of good along with the
'bad' aspect of having power imposed by a foreign nation. However, in this
instance, the Ithacans may not have thought much about the 'bad' since they had
been held by foreign powers for centuries. And overlords and colonial masters
who were less enlightened than the British.
Photo: Gladstone Cemetery where Charlie Ross was buried in
1907.
The British may have been patronising, superior and at times
oppressive but they also built roads, bridges, schools, hospitals and
established trade links as well as developing agriculture and industry. Ithaca
became a better place under British rule and young Charlie would never have
known anything different. By the time he was born the British had been in
charge for thirty-four years and his parents would also have known nothing
other than the British as colonial masters. Having taken them from the French,
perhaps Charlie's grandfather had welcomed British rule.
In 1864 Britain relinquished control and Ithaca, along with
the other Ionian Islands, became a part of the new Greek State. Perhaps it was
at this point that Charlie Ross decided his future lay elsewhere. He may also
have joined the British Merchant Navy and anglicised his name at that point.
Although the family story was that he came out on his 'uncle's ship' which
could have meant, if there is a connection with the Rossolimos family of
Ithaca, this being the most likely Greek surname for him, that his uncle owned
ships and found him a job. Then again, his uncle could also have been in the
British Merchant Navy and helped his nephew to find a job.
Charlie Ross had grown up as an Ithacan during a time of
British rule but the Ionian islands, of which Ithaca is a part, had always had
a hybrid nature and while culturally there was much in common with Greece,
historically, culturally and linguistically there was also much more at work
than Greek culture and many inhabitants of the Ionian Islands were not Greek.
Nearly half a century of British management, and exposure to Anglo and European
lovers of Greek culture in general and Homeric culture in particular, would
have influenced the Ithacan people just as they had been influenced by other
dominant cultures in the past.
For more than four hundred years the islands had been a
Venetian colony and later was dominated by the French, the Russians and the
Turks, all of whom introduced aspects of their own laws, forms of government,
language and culture. During the centuries of Venetian and French rule,
Ithacans in the higher stratas of society had inter-married and some had even
converted to Catholicism.
It was the peasants who held to the Greek Orthodox Church and
the Greek language and I have no reason to believe that Charlie Ross was
descended from a peasant family, despite the potential connection with the
rather more illustrious Rossolimos family. I could of course be wrong, knowing
nothing much about Charlie Ross beyond the fact that he was Greek, that when he
died he was well-liked and well-respected, and given the spelling of some of
his children's names in the birth register - Clesanthows, or Cresanthorus for Chrysantheous - he
had an atrocious accent, also verified by family stories, and perhaps his
reading and writing of English was not as good as it might have been, given his
clear failure to correct the clerk in Clare, who took down the details of his
son's birth. One would assume, if he had good written English, that he knew how
to spell Chrysantheous! NB: Another researcher said the name was written as Cresanthorus not Clesanthows. 2024.
But Charlie Ross, like the land of his birth, was something
of a mystery and a contradiction. He too had been formed through a variety of
influences; that of the culture of the land of his birth; the culture of a
sailor who spends years 'roving;' and the culture of the land where he chose to
settle, and no doubt, the culture of the woman he married.
The Ionian Islands were indeed hybrid: a mixture of numerous
influences and contradictions, and
Ithacans, like other Ionians were in many ways a 'mongrel' race where
East met West and where the mix of mind and culture was broad and sometimes
deep.
While admiring Greek culture and Ithaca's Homeric
traditions, the British saw the Ionians as very different to themselves. The
'superstition, ignorance, duplicity, violence, excitability and subservience to
demagogues were the opposite of industrious and upright Anglo-Saxons who
possessed self-control, reason, honesty, love for order and freedom, manliness,
domesticity, and respect for the law and sobriety.'
(http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/19415/1/19415.pdf)
Through British eyes the Ithacans would have been
half-civilized and unstable; childlike even, and therefore not capable of
looking after themselves. Young Charlie could not have held too many grudges
given that he finally made his home in a very Anglo atmosphere, another British
colony, Australia.
But there were others who saw the Ionians differently and
perceived a nobility of character. Whether this was sourced in romantic notions
drawn from Homeric history, as was alleged by some, it would still have
softened the general view. Some saw them as respectable, possessed of moral
virtue, skill and sincerity - not to mention independence of mind, a quality
which young Charlie must have had.
How much he brought from the land of his birth to Australia it is not yet possible to say and may never be known. While he had an anglicised name, from what we can find, from the very beginning, he gave all of his children Greek names. One wonders why, having given up his Greek name, he continued a tradition to give his children names which would always set them apart from Anglo society to varying degrees, some names being more unusual than others and unusual first names, being more of a burden than unusual second names such as my grandfather was given in Vangelios.
His wife after all was Australian of English descent and a devout Anglican from what can be seen and yet either he had the 'power in the house' or she, for some reason agreed because it was important to him, and their five children all carried Greek names in a very Anglo culture. It was not as if Charlie was part of a Greek community in Gladstone as he could or might have been in Port Pirie. He was probably the only Greek in town! It is not so much unusual that he anglicised his name but it is unusual that he did so and then called his children by Greek names.
There are a variety of reasons why he might have changed his name to an English 'version' and it is an assumption that it was simply Anglicised instead of changed completely: 1. he joined the British Merchant Navy and it was easier with an English name or they Anglicised it for their records; 2. he was 'running away from something' and an English name was harder to trace, 3. he changed his name or Anglicised his name when he 'jumped ship' in South Australia because it made him harder to find.
My gut instinct is that (1) is the correct answer because it would mean he had gotten used to being called Charlie Ross and it was too hard to change it but as part of Greek tradition and in honour of the land of his birth, his long-lost or perhaps now dead parents, he gave Greek names to his children.
The only reason for not following tradition is to make it more difficult, perhaps impossible, for him and his family in Australia to be linked to family in Greece, something any Greek could do, knowing naming traditions and something which would provide identity for an Ithacan, between Charlie and his Greek family, should an Ithacan end up in Gladstone. Given that Charlie had spent a few years in Port Pirie he would know there was a large Greek community in that town and amongst them, a few Ithacans.
The rest of the children's names may well follow naming
tradition but probably they do not. Although he has, by the fourth child, the
courage to use his father's name ... that is if the name Christie on the
marriage certificate is correct.
There seems only one reason why Charlie would not want clear
links with his Greek family and that would be if he had another wife or even
children there. Given Greek culture it is hard to believe he would not want his
parents to know where he was, but he might not want a wife to know he was a
bigamist.
Having said that, the fact that Charlie spent a few years,
probably at least five, in Port Pirie and it makes one wonder why, if there
were a first wife, he did not send for her. Perhaps he was just forgetful and
there is nothing manipulative about his naming practices. Time will hopefully
tell. Although he would have been the only Greek in town since Greeks did not
begin arriving until the 1890's.
But the absolute facts about Charlie Ross are still few:
1. He was born in Greece in 1849. He went to sea as a young
man, circa: 1869, sometime between the ages of 17 and 23. The earliest date
would be 1866.
2. He became a sailor and spent some years at sea 'roving'
and having adventures - minimum of five, maximum of ten.
3. He settled in Port Pirie after arriving in Australia. The
earliest date would be 1871 and the latest, circa: 1877, for enough years to be
'remembered.'
4. He moved to Gladstone circa. 1886 and worked there as a
fishmonger as he had in Pirie.
5. He married Mary Atkins in 1888. He gave his father's name
as Christie on the marriage certificate.
6. He had five children to whom he gave at least one Greek
name.
7. He anglicised his Greek name or adopted an English name
after arriving in Australia or the Port Pirie report would have included
another name for 'old Pirieans to recognise.
8. The Greek names he chose for his children, Constantinus,
Anastasia, Vangelios, Chrysantheous, Christus and Spiro are likely to have
family connections.
9. He died in 1907 and was buried in an Anglican cemetery.
10. His grand-daughter Flora Ross Swincer was said to be the
spitting image of him.
11. He had a very strong accent given the poor phonetic
spelling of some of his children's names on birth records.
12. He was obviously an amiable and personable character, as
stated in his obituary, given the fact that the death notice was reprinted in
the Port Pirie newspaper more than twenty years after he had left the town, for
the benefit of those who had known and remembered him fondly.
13. There is no record of him ever taking up citizenship.
(Perhaps evidence that he did jump ship.)
Other possible facts drawn from family history are:
1. He was born on Ithaca, one of the Ionian Islands.
2. He 'jumped ship' at Port Germein and so entered Australia
illegally.
3. He came out on his 'uncle's ship.'
4. He spoke a number of languages.
So the questions which still need to be answered are:
1. What was his Greek Christian name and surname?
2. Was he born on Ithaca? If so where?
3. Is his English name an anglicisation of his Greek name or
something he adopted?
4. On what date and just how did he arrive in Australia.
Port Germein was established in 1878 and the jetty built in
1881 while Port Pirie was founded as a settlement in 1845 and the town was
surveyed in 1871. In 1876 it had 971 people.
The Greek presence in South Australia was said to begin in
1842 when Georgios Tramountanas arrived at Port Adelaide with his brother
Theodore who went on to Western Australia. George born in Athens in 1822
settled on the Eyre Peninsula. But it would be another seventy years before
there was a documented Greek presence in Port Pirie. Naturalisation papers for
South Australia have a Peter Warrick, who anglicised his name, working as a
carpenter in Port Pirie in 1892. He had arrived in the colony in 1875 but there
is no record of where he was living between then and 1892. It may have been
Port Pirie in which case Charlie would have had a companion and perhaps one,
who, having anglicised his own name, encouraged him to do the same.
So the earliest Charlie Ross, given his age, could have
arrived in Port Pirie would be 1871 although if the 'jumping ship at Port
Germein' story is correct it would have been 1878. This would have given him
eight years in Port Pirie before he moved to Gladstone, long enough to be
'remembered' by a few 'old ones' at his death in 1907.
Personally I would be happy to have the Greek names which
would open so many more doors in the land of his birth. I am still hoping for
that one lost photograph to appear with the name on the back. Either that or a
distant Greek relative looking to find out what happened to a great-uncle who
sailed away never to be seen again.
