It is the snippets of information which bring the people of the past alive. I had always thought my great-grandmother Mary (Polly) Atkins Ross was feisty because of things my aunt said, but a distant relative came up with a similar story and today supplied a newspaper court report of her being in trouble for fighting and swearing in the street in Gladstone, South Australia!
She was tiny from what one can see in photographs although of course, her sister-in-law Annie Clavin Atkins may just have been tall but even as a child Mary looked slight and short and photos of her brother, James Haynes Atkins show him to be of similar stature. There is no doubt that photographs are wonderful but Trove, the Australian National Library resource of increasingly available online, newspapers from the time, is also throwing up insight into the lives of our ancestors and light at times onto their personalities.
I find these small peeks into personal lives so interesting. What makes it even more interesting is that it comes in the same week when I remarked that my great-grandmother Mary Atkins Ross had a reputation for being feisty, according to her grand-daughter Jessie Ross Sands and then Luke provided a story from his side of the family verifying her as a rather powerful personality, or at least someone his mother found terrifying when she met her frequently as a child.
To now read that she was something of a rebel, as was her sister, rough some might say, fighting and swearing and throwing stones in the street, means the picture has been 'painted' with broader strokes. She was little but clearly she was tough. It is interesting, and hardly surprising, how much more we can relate to these 'forgotten faces' when we read of them in such a personal and descriptive way.
And in 1878 Mary (Polly) was no child. She was just eighteen and she had given birth to an illegitimate child, Edward (Welsh) Atkins. And Lizzie, or Elizabeth, her older sister was twenty-one! They were in fact, two, for the times, mature young women, acting like street urchins.
And they are throwing stones at a boy - a term used in those days for someone probably under the age of thirteen, so in essence, a child. Did the rebellious, if not 'angry' nature come from their father Edward or their mother, Elizabeth Mashford? There is no answer to that question although given the suspicions we have that Edward arrived in Australia as a convict, the 'finger of conjecture' would probably more easily point to him.
Then again, they did get off and the evidence was considered to be 'trivial.' One wonders what it was that incited the two Atkins sisters and perhaps what it was which the magistrate saw as mitigating factors.
In this article from the Northern Argus 1878
MAGISTRATES' COURT.
Lizzie and Polly Atkins were charged with
using threatening language and with throwing stones at a boy named John
Blackwell, at Gladstone,
on October 31 last. Messrs. Bonnar and Hardy for defendants, and Mr. Hosier
with Mr. O'Halloran for informant. The information was dismissed without costs,
the evidence against defendants being of a rather trivial character.
And a second charge in the same court related to Sarah Lewis who is undoubtedly the wife of George Lewis, Elizabeth Mashford (Lewis) Atkins oldest son by her first marriage.
Sarah Lewis was charged with using obscene language towards John Blackwell. At Gladstone, on October 31. On the application of Mr. Hosier the information was amended by altering the date of the alleged offence to November 13. The hearing was then adjourned until the January Court.
Sarah Lewis was then charged with assaulting Annie Moy, at Gladstone, on Nov. 13 by striking her on the back with a stone and attempting to throttle her.
Complainant gave evidence of the assault, admitting, however, that there was violence used on both sides. Her two daughters testified to having seen the assault, and to rescuing her from defendant's violence, but said they had in no way provoked the assault or retaliated. Defendant's evidence proved that the real assaults were committed by informant. The S.M. dismissed the case, commenting unfavorably on the evidence for the prosecution. Two other informants connected with the above matter were withdrawn.Northern Argus Tuesday 3/12/1878 p2
And a second charge in the same court related to Sarah Lewis who is undoubtedly the wife of George Lewis, Elizabeth Mashford (Lewis) Atkins oldest son by her first marriage.
Sarah Lewis was charged with using obscene language towards John Blackwell. At Gladstone, on October 31. On the application of Mr. Hosier the information was amended by altering the date of the alleged offence to November 13. The hearing was then adjourned until the January Court.
Sarah Lewis was then charged with assaulting Annie Moy, at Gladstone, on Nov. 13 by striking her on the back with a stone and attempting to throttle her.
Complainant gave evidence of the assault, admitting, however, that there was violence used on both sides. Her two daughters testified to having seen the assault, and to rescuing her from defendant's violence, but said they had in no way provoked the assault or retaliated. Defendant's evidence proved that the real assaults were committed by informant. The S.M. dismissed the case, commenting unfavorably on the evidence for the prosecution. Two other informants connected with the above matter were withdrawn.Northern Argus Tuesday 3/12/1878 p2
Photo: Edward Atkins, circa, 1867.
Sarah Lewis was the wife of Mary's half-brother George Lewis. He was ten years older than Mary and Sarah, who had been born in Wales in 1850, was twenty-eight. She had come to South Australia in 1855 with her parents in the ship Glantener. Her father John Griffiths had been captain mason of the E. & A. Copper Company at Burra. She married George in 1872. George was working as a boundary rider for H.B. Hughes on Booyoolie Station, a job he would hold for 41 years. So here we have three women brawling in the street with a boy and later we have Sarah fighting with Annie Moy. Why? It may just have been the way of things for them although if that were the case the magistrate would have said as much. What is curious is that all three of them got off. Again, why? Usually in such cases there are reasons given as to mitigating factors.
Logic suggests, given the circumstances, that a fight arose from something which was said to the Atkins women. It could have been anything but, given that it was barely a year since Mary had given birth to an illegitimate child and such events were hardly uncommon, nor from the frequency of them, reasons for censure, one can only wonder if there was something else which could have been said which raised Mary and Elizabeth and their sister-in-law Sarah, to such rage. There is little doubt that accusations of incest would bring such a violent response, whether true or not.
George was Elizabeth Mashford (Lewis) Atkins oldest child and he would always have been on her side, if such a side had to be taken, against his stepfather. And given the fact that Elizabeth and Mary were his only sisters, he would also have been protective of them. That attitude would naturally be taken up by his wife.
Something set the Atkins women on fire with righteous and savage indignation.
The other bit of fact-crunching involves the where and when of Elizabeth and Edward's movements. An obituary for Elizabeth Mashford (Lewis) Atkins said she went to Booyoolie in 1856. A year later she married Edward. In 1850 Henry Edward Atkins (the second Henry) was born to Edward and Hannah at Bundaleer. So Edward must have been working at Bundaleer at this time and had Hannah with him.
In 1851 Joseph Atkins was born to Edward and his first wife Hannah, in the Clare Valley, Penwortham, so Hannah at least is in Penwortham at this time, even if Edward was still at Bundaleer working.
In 1855 Edward was still at Bundaleer and Hannah and the children must have been with him because it is here that four year old Joseph dies. They are still at Bundaleer two years later, in 1857, when Henry Edward dies.
When Elizabeth moved to Booyoolie, near Gladstone, her eldest son George is eight and John is six. Little Henry, born in Adelaide, if he was still alive, which is doubtful, would have been four. Sometime after Henry's birth in 1854, Elizabeth moved to the mid-north and while she may well have gone first to the Clare Valley, all we do know is that by 1856 she was at Booyoolie - the area where Gladstone would later be established, or perhaps the station, where she was working.
+Mashford.jpg)
Booyoolie is some 37 kilometres away from Bundaleer, and while it is possible that sometime in 1857 she moved to Bundaleer and met Edward, it is perhaps more likely that she met him through friends or family in either the Clare Valley or at Booyoolie Station.Elizabeth had lost her brother John Cann Mashford in 1849 and her mother Mary Cann Mashford and her much loved brother George May Mashford in 1850.
At some time after 1854 when Henry was born, her marriage to Peter Lewis had broken up and perhaps little Henry had died. Her brother Josiah and her two sisters Jane and Mary Ann had moved to Melbourne and so she was alone. Josiah was involved in the publican trade, along with quite a few other things, and he had also applied for timber licences in South Australia, the Wirrabarra Forest being a likely area.
Depending upon firm dates, some eighteen months to two years after Henry's birth, Elizabeth had left Adelaide and was in Booyoolie. She may well have already spent a year in the Clare Valley with friends and met Edward and Hannah Atkins there when they returned to visit.
At this time Clare was a larger and more civilized 'hub' for the surrounding areas and it was also the Government centre where births, deaths and marriages were lodged. No doubt it was also where medical help could be sought if needed and those living and working in isolated areas like Booyoolie, Bundaleer and Wirrabarra Forest would no doubt have found their way to Clare at least once a year.
But there is one point where it gets tricky. The record states that Henry Edward died at Bundaleer in 1857 although we do not have a date. What we do have is the following information about Edward and Elizabeth's marriage:
His marriage record for January 12, 1857 to Elizabeth Mashford Lewis has them residing in Rocky River, which is the Wirrabarra Forest Area. They were married at St. Mark's Church, Penwortham and the witnesses were Abraham Cundall, farmer, Connaught (Clare Valley) and E. Greenslade, no occupation listed, Penwortham.
If young Henry Edward died at Bundaleer in 1857, and possibly his mother Hannah died at the same time, that gives Edward just twelve days in which to bury them, meet Elizabeth, or re-connect with her, and organise a marriage which to all intents and purposes appears open and legal and to move to Rocky River.
This suggests two things to me, one, that Edward and Elizabeth 'knew' each other beforehand although not for long given that Elizabeth arrived at Booyoolie in 1856, barely a year earlier, and that Hannah had died before Henry Edward. The death of his wife and his son, following on the death of Joseph in 1855, and if it was late in the year, barely twelve months earlier, would have made a quick marriage imperative for the sake of his surviving children.
The only other scenario is that Edward and Elizabeth had met, connected and moved to Rocky River sometime after her arrival in 1856 - love at first sight perhaps - and that when Hannah died, along with her son, in early 1857, no doubt from some sudden and infectious disease, they made their way to Penwortham to legalise the relationship and perhaps to collect the surviving children from his first marriage.
If this were the case then Hannah's children would have had good cause to 'hate' their stepmother and to reject her at the first opportunity.
However, the fact that the witnesses at the marriage were locals suggests some sort of relationship with them and the couple before the wedding. The E. Greenslade is probably a woman which suggests a relationship with Elizabeth, not Edward.
An Ellen Greenslade is listed as applying for a publican's licence in the Penwortham areas and Elizabeth's Cann connections had links with the trade including her mother, Mary Cann Mashford, who was listed as a publican in the 1841 Devon census and her brother, Josiah Labbett, who later owned hotels in Victoria and was bankrupted by them.
The presence of a female Clare Valley publican, Ellen Greenslade, as a witness at Elizabeth's marriage to Edward Atkins and the fact that they were living in the Wirrabarra Forest area at the time, suggests a possible link with Josiah, the wheeler-dealer, largely unsuccessful entrepreneur and bigamist of the Mashford family.
It is conjecture but perhaps Josiah met Ellen Greenslade when he travelled up to his timber areas and she offered to take in Elizabeth, who needed to leave a violent Peter Lewis - and we know from newspaper reports he was violent - and perhaps to give her a job and it was through this connection that Elizabeth later found more secure employment at Booyoolie. And also through this connection that she retained some contact with the Atkins family.
There is no doubt that people were tough and opportunistic in the times, particularly when their lives and that of their children were at risk. I doubt very much that Hannah remained alive given the connection that she and Edward had with people in the Clare Valley, where he married Elizabeth.
The original information regarding Edward and Hannah and Edward and Elizabeth can be found here:
http://roslyn-ross.blogspot.com/2011/07/finding-and-facing-absolute-facts-about.html
However, that does nor preclude a de-facto relationship for a brief time before Hannah conveniently went to her celestial rest allowing Edward and Elizabeth to marry. Hannah's daughters were old enough to understand and remember their mother's suffering if this was indeed what happened.
They would forgive their father because children always forgive their parents, but any rift between him and their stepmother would bring late but swift revenge. She and her children would be expunged from their lives suddenly and effectively if they believed that Elizabeth had been the cause of their mother's death and perhaps the cause of the death of their last brother.
The girls, once rid of the evil stepmother, would have rallied around their father as doubly 'wronged' by an opportunistic woman and their mother's memory would be restored to its rightful place, at the forefront of his mind.
All of which suggests to me that the one son mentioned in Edward's obituary is not James Haynes and the numbers of children and grand-children do not include any of Elizabeth's children or grand-children.
Which merely 'begs' the question of who was the surviving son? There are three possibilities -(1) there was another son born to Hannah and Edward of which we have no record;(2) there was another son born to Edward, but illegitimate, so listing that son would be a gloriously vindictive strike at the 'evil stepmother' and her spawn, or,(3) Edward Welsh Atkins was Edward's illegitimate son with his daughter Mary, and listing him was an even better 'strike' at the evil stepmother!
I doubt that (1) is likely because given how much we have found out about the descendants of Edward and Hannah's daughters, the Newberry, Pole and Puddy families, and how much work members of that side of the family have done, it seems unlikely that a surviving son would not have emerged.
Option (2) is possible but we would have to find a birth record for a son born to an Edward Atkins and 'mother' sometime between 1857 (anything is possible) and the time of his death.
Which leaves the simplest and perhaps most likely explanation as Luke suggested. Perhaps Mary's illegitimate son was the result of incest and he was raised by his father, Edward Atkins, or at least by one of his aunts in the same house where Edward lived. It could be the simplest explanation for the one son mentioned and also account for Edward putting his father's name on his marriage record as Edward Atkins and not Edward Welsh or Welch!
One doubts that Elizabeth would have wanted to live with the 'proof' of her husband's disgraceful behaviour and her innocent daughter's shame and given Mary's toughness, perhaps she too wanted to 'put it all behind her.' He had created the problem and he could take care of it! Edward would have been eleven when Mary married Charlie Ross and a 'big brother' to my grandfather for at least a few years of his life and yet there are no family stories of his presence.
Sometimes the simplest answers are the best.
Although conjecture always demands conversation and enquiry and so I add the following exchange with Kylie in regard to the possibilities:
There
is nothing to preclude a short defacto relationship, both having been
married before that would not have been too extraordinary.
They certainly didn’t have to get married with the first child born over
10 months later. I don’t think there is any reason to think that
Hannah was still alive. If the was a split I would guess it came years
later and there may not have been anything dramatic
to create the rift.
The
difficulty is working out where ‘Rocky River’ was. It is possible it
was an outstation on the White brothers run or
on Booyoolie. Considering that they appeared to be on the White
Brothers’ run Charlton when all the children were born I would guess
that is where ‘Rocky River’ was. But it runs through Gladstone and
Laura both of which were on Booyoolie perhaps they were
on Booyoolie. I have always assumed that when the girls were born at
Wirrabara it was where we know it to be now. How big an area did the
Wirrabara area cover, did it go down to the top of Booyoolie. I have
been unable to find any reference to Wirrabara
until 1861 and that was the renaming of Charlton. Are we being misled
by the Wirrabara reference?
Booyoolie is some 37 kilometres away from Bundaleer, and while it is possible that sometime in 1857 she moved to Bundaleer and met Edward, it is perhaps more likely that she met him through friends or family in either the Clare Valley or at Booyoolie Station. Remember she married 12th Jan 1857, lets presume she met him in 1856. Also remember that the shepherds etc were not based at the station homestead and so he may have been closer to Booyoolie than Bundaleer and vice versa. For instance Booyoolie is only 28ks from Jamestown which was part of Bundaleer. In the early days I believe these runs were basically one big area that joined up with each other. Up until 1856 Booyoolie and Bundaleer were both owned by the Hughes Brothers. There may have been a lot of movement between them. There was also the issue with staffing that occurred at this time because of the gold rush to Victoria. Perhaps the reason Edward left Bundaleer was that the Hughes had sold Bundaleer and took all their good staff over to Booyoolie to fully staff that run.
The connection of Rocky River with Wirrabarra comes from earlier research and the fact that when I lived in Port Pirie in the early seventies Wirrabarra was associated with Rocky River - that also being the name of an electoral area which included Port Pirie. The Rocky River runs through Wirrabara and it is a large area. Wirrabarra is part of the Flinders ranges.
But I was also just working on distances: Bundaleer, where Edward worked and young Henry and Joseph died is south of Jamestown and is 56kms from Rocky River, Wirrabarra while Booyoolie, where Elizabeth went in 1856 is 43kims from Bundaleer and 51kms from Wirrabarra and the area which is known as Rocky River.
Wirrabarra Forest is north of Port Pirie and covers a large area. It had previously been known as White's Forest and timber-cutting started there in the 1850's. The fact that Elizabeth and Mary were born at Wirrabarra and James was born at Charlton, which is in Wirrabarra Forest, suggests that the 'Rocky River' place of residence was probably here since this is where they were after the marriage.
Given that his two sons had died at Bundaleer, if he had still been living there my guess is he would have put Bundaleer as his place of residence. Unless he had the job at Rocky River/Wirrabarra but they had not get moved there.
And yes, they did not need to get married although that is also an assumption because there would be no way of knowing if Elizabeth had lost a child.
My guess would be that it was White's Forest until the Government designated it as a timber leasing area and gave it the name Wirrabarra. Clearly White was the name of the people who had the run but when the Government began selling licences to cut timber in the early 1850's I am sure they were looking for a new name. Just a guess.
My real line of questioning was making the connection of them marrying January 12, 1857 when now that we know the two families are from the same Edward, we also know his son Henry Edward, from his marriage to Hannah, died in 1857.... so less than a fortnight to marry Elizabeth and move to Rocky River, Wirrabarra.
When we previously looked at all of this we did not know the 'two' Edwards were one. Not that it is madly important in the scheme of things - just interesting.
This is assuming the unnamed child was Henry Edward. It may have been Sarah. But either way they were at Bundaleer.
Except Luke came up with a record of Henry Edward born at Bundaleer and dying there.
Remember that the church was at Penwortham not Bundaleer, were they just attending church and had the kid baptised, was it recorded as Penwortham? I would guess they were both at Bundaleer although she may have moved into town to have the baby, so the birth took place there, baby was baptised and then they returned to Bundaleer.
True, although perhaps what I am referring to as a birth notice was a baptism notice and she would have had to be at Penwortham for that. But yes, they were still at Bundaleer which is a long way from both Penwortham and Booyoolie.
In 1855 Edward was still at Bundaleer and Hannah and the children must have been with him because it is here that four year old Joseph dies. They are still at Bundaleer two years later, in 1857, when Henry Edward dies. Why does Hannah have to be there at either of these times. Also the record did not say that Henry Edward the 2nd died at Bundaleer did it?
This was what Luke put up the other day:
Assuming that the obit was correct, no guarantee with that. She may have only moved north in 1856, not straight to Booyoolie. I believe the only work at Booyoolie would have been the station. There was no town until sometime later.
I meant Booyoolie Station. There was no town in the area at the time.
Remember she married 12th Jan 1857, lets presume she met him in 1856.
I don't have a problem with that. The thing that got me thinking was if Henry died in 1857 at Bundaleer and after January 12, 1857 Edward was in Rocky River, Wirrabarra with Elizabeth, it suggests - because they married legally and openly, that Henry had died within the first week of January and either Hannah was already dead or she died with him.
Also remember that the shepherds etc were not based at the station homestead and so he may have been closer to Booyoolie than Bundaleer and vice versa. For instance Booyoolie is only 28ks from Jamestown which was part of Bundaleer. In the early days I believe these runs were basically one big area that joined up with each other. Up until 1856 Booyoolie and Bundaleer were both owned by the Hughes Brothers. There may have been a lot of movement between them. There was also the issue with staffing that occurred at this time because of the gold rush to Victoria. Perhaps the reason Edward left Bundaleer was that the Hughes had sold Bundaleer and took all their good staff over to Booyoolie to fully staff that run.
I also do not have a problem with that.The runs were big and yes he may have met Elizabeth but the issue of where Henry Edward died raises the questions of whether or not Hannah and Edward were still together when this happened.
And here is where it gets tricky. The record states that Henry Edward died at Bundaleer in 1857 although we do not have a date. What we do have is the following information about Edward and Elizabeth's marriage: Did it say Bundaleer? Feb 1857 2/1857 was what it said so I assumed Feb.
The note Luke put up about Henry Edward's death just said born and died at Bundaleer. No date. If there is a record showing his death in the February then perhaps he did not go with his father after he married Elizabeth. Although as an only son that would be odd.
Boring is fine and often the simplest answer is the right one, but this is the least likely. It just doesn't fit the circumstances or attitudes of the times. The biggest problem with this is that someone had to be looking after the children. And yes, certainly possible but with Joseph dying at Bundaleer in 1855 and Henry dying in the same place in 1857 where as far as we know Edward was still working - and conditions would have been pretty basic, he would have had to find a woman to look after what was it, five young children. Times were tough and people had their own large families and struggled. It was why men married quickly after their wives died.
The most likely thing is still that he married Elizabeth not long after Hannah died. Either that, or, as I said, there was a wife in between who took on the kids and who provided another son and who also died and made way for Elizabeth.
It
never seems to be simple does it? The date is not complete. Perhaps it
is there on the original but has been left out here. It is a toss-up as
to whether the 2 is January 2 or denotes the month, February. If it is
January 2 then it still fits a theory of
a lot happening within twelve days.
It is certainly possible that children could be farmed out but I am not so sure it is as likely in this situation. And yes, such things were more common in the next century but the circumstances were different.
But it is certainly possible and it is also possible that he advertised for a housekeeper and met Elizabeth that way. But the path of rampant conjecture has borne fruit before and I believe that all possibilities need to be considered, particularly those which seem to appear in 'left field.' And that is because we are trying to make sense or a situation, what appears to be a dramatic and irrevocable split between Edward and Elizabeth and seeing if the 'seeds' of it cannot be found in the past.
Just looking at the births:
. Henry Edward born 1843
If Hannah died after Emily was born, or when she was born, then Jane (McKinnon) would have been nine, Margaret (Newberry) seven, Ann (Pole) five, Sarah (Stacey) four, Joseph three and baby Emily.... and the second Edward four or five.
That is seven children which is quite a lot to farm out so it is more likely that a. Hannah remained alive until 1856 or 57 or, that Elizabeth came in as housekeeper. If Elizabeth came in as housekeeper in 1856 and Bundaleer has been mixed up as Booyoolie - they sound similar and as Aboriginal names no doubt 'strange' even then, Jane would have been eleven, Margaret nine and Ann seven and even Sarah six - more than old enough to form a relationship with Elizabeth and to see her as a mother. Little Emily would have been so young that Elizabeth would have been the only mother she had known.
And given that it seems Edward was living with Emily and his son-in-law Edward Puddy when he died, and we believe it was Edward who put in the death notice, one can only wonder why Emily, who is the one daughter who would really never have known her mother, and who would have been brought up as Elizabeth's daughter, should have omitted her and her half-sisters and brother from the obituary. Emily would have been four when Elizabeth was born, five when Mary arrived and she would have been their big sister, along with the older girls.
If Edward and Elizabeth did move to Gladstone together and then later separated, Emily would have been somewhere between the ages of sixteen and twenty when this happened. If the cause of the 'split' was Mary's illegitimate child then she would have been twenty-three.
It just seems to me that the omission of Elizabeth and her children by Emily in particular, has more meaning, than if Edward had been living with any of his older daughters. And perhaps it was Emily who raised Edward Welsh Atkins. Conjecture of course but the 'silence' in regard to this major split still speaks.
It is not as I said, particularly important in the scheme of things but just interesting and a part of the picture of the family which we have begun to draw in greater detail.
In
1850 Henry Edward Atkins (the second Henry) was born to Edward and
Hannah at Bundaleer. So Edward must have been working at Bundaleer at
this time and had Hannah with him.
This is assuming the unnamed child was Henry Edward. It may have been Sarah. But either way they were at Bundaleer.
In 1851 Joseph Atkins was born to Edward and his first wife Hannah, in the Clare Valley, Penwortham, so Hannah at least is in Penwortham at this time, even if Edward was still at Bundaleer working. Remember that the church was at Penwortham not Bundaleer, were they just attending church and had the kid baptised, was it recorded as Penwortham? I would guess they were both at Bundaleer although she may have moved into town to have the baby, so the birth took place there, baby was baptised and then they returned to Bundaleer.
In 1851 Joseph Atkins was born to Edward and his first wife Hannah, in the Clare Valley, Penwortham, so Hannah at least is in Penwortham at this time, even if Edward was still at Bundaleer working. Remember that the church was at Penwortham not Bundaleer, were they just attending church and had the kid baptised, was it recorded as Penwortham? I would guess they were both at Bundaleer although she may have moved into town to have the baby, so the birth took place there, baby was baptised and then they returned to Bundaleer.
We know Hannah was at Bundaleer in 1854 cos Emily was born there then.
In 1855 Edward was still at Bundaleer and Hannah and the children must have been with him because it is here that four year old Joseph dies. They are still at Bundaleer two years later, in 1857, when Henry Edward dies. Why does Hannah have to be there at either of these times. Also the record did not say that Henry Edward the 2nd died at Bundaleer did it?
When Elizabeth moved to Booyoolie, near Gladstone, her eldest son George is eight and John is six. Little Henry, born in Adelaide, if he was still alive, which is doubtful, would have been four. He died at about 1. Sometime after Henry's birth in 1854, Elizabeth moved to the mid-north and while she may well have gone first to the Clare Valley, all we do know is that by 1856 she was at Booyoolie - the area where Gladstone would later be established, or perhaps the station, where she was working. Assuming that the obit was correct, no guarantee with that. She may have only moved north in 1856, not straight to Booyoolie. I believe the only work at Booyoolie would have been the station. There was no town until sometime later.
In 1855 Edward was still at Bundaleer and Hannah and the children must have been with him because it is here that four year old Joseph dies. They are still at Bundaleer two years later, in 1857, when Henry Edward dies. Why does Hannah have to be there at either of these times. Also the record did not say that Henry Edward the 2nd died at Bundaleer did it?
When Elizabeth moved to Booyoolie, near Gladstone, her eldest son George is eight and John is six. Little Henry, born in Adelaide, if he was still alive, which is doubtful, would have been four. He died at about 1. Sometime after Henry's birth in 1854, Elizabeth moved to the mid-north and while she may well have gone first to the Clare Valley, all we do know is that by 1856 she was at Booyoolie - the area where Gladstone would later be established, or perhaps the station, where she was working. Assuming that the obit was correct, no guarantee with that. She may have only moved north in 1856, not straight to Booyoolie. I believe the only work at Booyoolie would have been the station. There was no town until sometime later.
Booyoolie is some 37 kilometres away from Bundaleer, and while it is possible that sometime in 1857 she moved to Bundaleer and met Edward, it is perhaps more likely that she met him through friends or family in either the Clare Valley or at Booyoolie Station. Remember she married 12th Jan 1857, lets presume she met him in 1856. Also remember that the shepherds etc were not based at the station homestead and so he may have been closer to Booyoolie than Bundaleer and vice versa. For instance Booyoolie is only 28ks from Jamestown which was part of Bundaleer. In the early days I believe these runs were basically one big area that joined up with each other. Up until 1856 Booyoolie and Bundaleer were both owned by the Hughes Brothers. There may have been a lot of movement between them. There was also the issue with staffing that occurred at this time because of the gold rush to Victoria. Perhaps the reason Edward left Bundaleer was that the Hughes had sold Bundaleer and took all their good staff over to Booyoolie to fully staff that run.
The connection of Rocky River with Wirrabarra comes from earlier research and the fact that when I lived in Port Pirie in the early seventies Wirrabarra was associated with Rocky River - that also being the name of an electoral area which included Port Pirie. The Rocky River runs through Wirrabara and it is a large area. Wirrabarra is part of the Flinders ranges.
But I was also just working on distances: Bundaleer, where Edward worked and young Henry and Joseph died is south of Jamestown and is 56kms from Rocky River, Wirrabarra while Booyoolie, where Elizabeth went in 1856 is 43kims from Bundaleer and 51kms from Wirrabarra and the area which is known as Rocky River.
Wirrabarra Forest is north of Port Pirie and covers a large area. It had previously been known as White's Forest and timber-cutting started there in the 1850's. The fact that Elizabeth and Mary were born at Wirrabarra and James was born at Charlton, which is in Wirrabarra Forest, suggests that the 'Rocky River' place of residence was probably here since this is where they were after the marriage.
Given that his two sons had died at Bundaleer, if he had still been living there my guess is he would have put Bundaleer as his place of residence. Unless he had the job at Rocky River/Wirrabarra but they had not get moved there.
And yes, they did not need to get married although that is also an assumption because there would be no way of knowing if Elizabeth had lost a child.
My guess would be that it was White's Forest until the Government designated it as a timber leasing area and gave it the name Wirrabarra. Clearly White was the name of the people who had the run but when the Government began selling licences to cut timber in the early 1850's I am sure they were looking for a new name. Just a guess.
My real line of questioning was making the connection of them marrying January 12, 1857 when now that we know the two families are from the same Edward, we also know his son Henry Edward, from his marriage to Hannah, died in 1857.... so less than a fortnight to marry Elizabeth and move to Rocky River, Wirrabarra.
When we previously looked at all of this we did not know the 'two' Edwards were one. Not that it is madly important in the scheme of things - just interesting.
This is assuming the unnamed child was Henry Edward. It may have been Sarah. But either way they were at Bundaleer.
Except Luke came up with a record of Henry Edward born at Bundaleer and dying there.
Remember that the church was at Penwortham not Bundaleer, were they just attending church and had the kid baptised, was it recorded as Penwortham? I would guess they were both at Bundaleer although she may have moved into town to have the baby, so the birth took place there, baby was baptised and then they returned to Bundaleer.
True, although perhaps what I am referring to as a birth notice was a baptism notice and she would have had to be at Penwortham for that. But yes, they were still at Bundaleer which is a long way from both Penwortham and Booyoolie.
In 1855 Edward was still at Bundaleer and Hannah and the children must have been with him because it is here that four year old Joseph dies. They are still at Bundaleer two years later, in 1857, when Henry Edward dies. Why does Hannah have to be there at either of these times. Also the record did not say that Henry Edward the 2nd died at Bundaleer did it?
This was what Luke put up the other day:
• Henry Edward Atkins DOB 1850 Bundaleer DOD 1857 Bundaleer.
As to why Hannah would be at Bundaleer, one presumes as the mother she would be with her children. Edward was working and as a shepherd he would be away for days at a time. Hannah could be dead before the children died but given the times it is unlikely because Edward would have married earlier. Unless he did, and Hannah died in 1854 when Emily was born and there is another dead wife who produced a son maybe. But I think that is less likely.
As to why Hannah would be at Bundaleer, one presumes as the mother she would be with her children. Edward was working and as a shepherd he would be away for days at a time. Hannah could be dead before the children died but given the times it is unlikely because Edward would have married earlier. Unless he did, and Hannah died in 1854 when Emily was born and there is another dead wife who produced a son maybe. But I think that is less likely.
Assuming that the obit was correct, no guarantee with that. She may have only moved north in 1856, not straight to Booyoolie. I believe the only work at Booyoolie would have been the station. There was no town until sometime later.
I meant Booyoolie Station. There was no town in the area at the time.
Remember she married 12th Jan 1857, lets presume she met him in 1856.
I don't have a problem with that. The thing that got me thinking was if Henry died in 1857 at Bundaleer and after January 12, 1857 Edward was in Rocky River, Wirrabarra with Elizabeth, it suggests - because they married legally and openly, that Henry had died within the first week of January and either Hannah was already dead or she died with him.
Also remember that the shepherds etc were not based at the station homestead and so he may have been closer to Booyoolie than Bundaleer and vice versa. For instance Booyoolie is only 28ks from Jamestown which was part of Bundaleer. In the early days I believe these runs were basically one big area that joined up with each other. Up until 1856 Booyoolie and Bundaleer were both owned by the Hughes Brothers. There may have been a lot of movement between them. There was also the issue with staffing that occurred at this time because of the gold rush to Victoria. Perhaps the reason Edward left Bundaleer was that the Hughes had sold Bundaleer and took all their good staff over to Booyoolie to fully staff that run.
I also do not have a problem with that.The runs were big and yes he may have met Elizabeth but the issue of where Henry Edward died raises the questions of whether or not Hannah and Edward were still together when this happened.
And here is where it gets tricky. The record states that Henry Edward died at Bundaleer in 1857 although we do not have a date. What we do have is the following information about Edward and Elizabeth's marriage: Did it say Bundaleer? Feb 1857 2/1857 was what it said so I assumed Feb.
The note Luke put up about Henry Edward's death just said born and died at Bundaleer. No date. If there is a record showing his death in the February then perhaps he did not go with his father after he married Elizabeth. Although as an only son that would be odd.
Or thirdly that Hannah died earlier in 1854 or 1855. Edward and Elizabeth met in 1856 and married in Jan
1857. Boring but more likely.
Boring is fine and often the simplest answer is the right one, but this is the least likely. It just doesn't fit the circumstances or attitudes of the times. The biggest problem with this is that someone had to be looking after the children. And yes, certainly possible but with Joseph dying at Bundaleer in 1855 and Henry dying in the same place in 1857 where as far as we know Edward was still working - and conditions would have been pretty basic, he would have had to find a woman to look after what was it, five young children. Times were tough and people had their own large families and struggled. It was why men married quickly after their wives died.
The most likely thing is still that he married Elizabeth not long after Hannah died. Either that, or, as I said, there was a wife in between who took on the kids and who provided another son and who also died and made way for Elizabeth.
“Parish Records:
Burial:
St Barnabas Church of England Clare:
Name: Henry Edward Atkins 7 years
2/1857”.[1]
This
is the record that Luke found. It is a record of a Burial recorded
by St Barnabas Church Clare. I presume the 2/1857 is February. Yes
Luke did say born and died at Bundaleer but I don’t know if that is
correct considering this is the record he got it from. The record for
the birth was for the unnamed child in 1850. I still
think this is more likely to be Sarah and that the 2nd Henry Edward was born in
1849. Either way they were at Bundaleer in 1849/50. I think the last
time we know that they were at Bundaleer is 10 march 1854 when Emily
was born.
After
a man was widowed he would have found plenty of help from everyone
around him and his children were probably farmed out amongst the station
families to be looked after until he sorted it out himself. I have a
vague memory of my mother doing this just before we left Myponga in
1969. It was only for about three weeks as we
were shifting but Mum took in the three year old child for a man who had
three children to be looked after when his wife was killed in a car
accident. It usually meant splitting up the family for a while but the
kids soon settled in.
I
wonder if he ‘advertised’ for a housekeeper and Elizabeth took up the
opportunity??
That would be the usual solution if there weren’t any eligible women In
the area. A widow with a couple of children would have been considered
suitable to live with a man like that where as an unmarried woman would
not.
My
point about the rocky river is that it also runs through Booyoolie,
running
through both Laura and Gladstone, so it could be an outstation on
Booyoolie. This would fit the Obit , however I agree that considering
the children were all born on the White brothers property, it was most
likely somewhere on the Charlton run. Which may
mean Elizabeth’s Obit is incorrect and that she went to Charlton only
moving years later to Booyoolie. Either that or she was on Booyoolie
for a short time before meeting up with Edward and joining him at Rocky
River. I would guess that the obit got it wrong.
It is certainly possible that children could be farmed out but I am not so sure it is as likely in this situation. And yes, such things were more common in the next century but the circumstances were different.
But it is certainly possible and it is also possible that he advertised for a housekeeper and met Elizabeth that way. But the path of rampant conjecture has borne fruit before and I believe that all possibilities need to be considered, particularly those which seem to appear in 'left field.' And that is because we are trying to make sense or a situation, what appears to be a dramatic and irrevocable split between Edward and Elizabeth and seeing if the 'seeds' of it cannot be found in the past.
Just looking at the births:
. Henry Edward born 1843
· Jane McKinnon nee Atkins 1845
· Margaret Newberry nee Atkins 1847
· Ann Pole nee Atkins 1847 (perhaps 1849)
. Henry Edward (second) 1849 or 1850
. Henry Edward (second) 1849 or 1850
· Sarah Stacey nee Atkins 1850
· Joseph Atkins born 1851
. Emily Puddy nee Atkins 1854If Hannah died after Emily was born, or when she was born, then Jane (McKinnon) would have been nine, Margaret (Newberry) seven, Ann (Pole) five, Sarah (Stacey) four, Joseph three and baby Emily.... and the second Edward four or five.
That is seven children which is quite a lot to farm out so it is more likely that a. Hannah remained alive until 1856 or 57 or, that Elizabeth came in as housekeeper. If Elizabeth came in as housekeeper in 1856 and Bundaleer has been mixed up as Booyoolie - they sound similar and as Aboriginal names no doubt 'strange' even then, Jane would have been eleven, Margaret nine and Ann seven and even Sarah six - more than old enough to form a relationship with Elizabeth and to see her as a mother. Little Emily would have been so young that Elizabeth would have been the only mother she had known.
And given that it seems Edward was living with Emily and his son-in-law Edward Puddy when he died, and we believe it was Edward who put in the death notice, one can only wonder why Emily, who is the one daughter who would really never have known her mother, and who would have been brought up as Elizabeth's daughter, should have omitted her and her half-sisters and brother from the obituary. Emily would have been four when Elizabeth was born, five when Mary arrived and she would have been their big sister, along with the older girls.
If Edward and Elizabeth did move to Gladstone together and then later separated, Emily would have been somewhere between the ages of sixteen and twenty when this happened. If the cause of the 'split' was Mary's illegitimate child then she would have been twenty-three.
It just seems to me that the omission of Elizabeth and her children by Emily in particular, has more meaning, than if Edward had been living with any of his older daughters. And perhaps it was Emily who raised Edward Welsh Atkins. Conjecture of course but the 'silence' in regard to this major split still speaks.
It is not as I said, particularly important in the scheme of things but just interesting and a part of the picture of the family which we have begun to draw in greater detail.
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